Iran warns the US carrier against returning to the Persian gulf

[Malthus]

Considering how narrow the straight is, if Iran tried isnt it rather likely that they would sink or seriously damage a transiting carrier? If so, its a pretty big bet to call when you send the carrier in there again. On the other hand you cant really not send to carrier in since it would signal that Iran can dictate what passes through the strait...

In a wargame as Iran a US general managed to sink a carrier and some escorts using kamikaze speed boats and a fuckton of missiles. However the Navy said he broke the rules of the game and it didn't count. 

I believe that was a wargame for the invasion of Iraq.

No, Von Ripper was war gaming as an expy of Iran

Van Riper played as Unnamed Middle Eastern Nation and actually sank the whole battle group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

Very interesting article. Any military types wish to comment?

I like the name "Van Riper" for a general. 

I remember having a debate - I think it was over the Liberty incident - in which I brought up this possibility, only to have it laughed to scorn:

Red, commanded by retired Marine Corps Lt. General Paul K. Van Riper, used old methods to evade Blue's sophisticated electronic surveillance network. Van Riper used motorcycle messengers to transmit orders to front-line troops and World War II light signals to launch airplanes without radio communications.

[MadBurgerMaker]

IIRC, Van Riper apparently used that at the....I think it was all the way up to the theater level.  As in: motorcycle couriers were relaying ALL communication from Lieutenants (or whatever) in the field to the big man up top.  All of it.  That's a lot of fucking motorcycles.  Also IIRC, he also turned all of his supply trucks into missile launchers (heh), used fishing boats that were ignored by the "game" as suicide ships (he knew they were ignored by the "game" rules, but not in real life), etc.



Maybe g knows more.  I'm going off of shit I heard a long time ago, and every time it comes up, I seem to remember less and less.  Ugh.  My second year in the Navy was "a long time ago" now.  My ship has been scrapped, and the places I worked before that don't exist anymore.  Ugh.

Edit:  Oh my ship might still exist.  As of 2010, according to Wiki, the status was still "awaiting scrapping."

[lustindarkness]

You guys worry too much, Obama will sit down to have some tea with them and talk it out.

[Malthus]

You guys worry too much, Obama will sit down to have some tea with them and talk it out.

Well, how could thet resist a genuine Nobel Peace-Prize winner?

[Malthus]

IIRC, Van Riper apparently used that at the....I think it was all the way up to the theater level.  As in: motorcycle couriers were relaying ALL communication from Lieutenants (or whatever) in the field to the big man up top.  All of it.  That's a lot of fucking motorcycles.  Also IIRC, he also turned all of his supply trucks into missile launchers (heh), used fishing boats that were ignored by the "game" as suicide ships (he knew they were ignored by the "game" rules, but not in real life), etc.

Heh, so he gamed the game?

[Darth Wagtaros]

You guys worry too much, Obama will sit down to have some tea with them and talk it out.

So long as he doesn't bow to the Ayatollah.

[alfred russel]

What do you guys think would be the US response if Iran somehow managed to inflict casualties on the carrier crew or even sink it?

Disproportionate

Are we talking about glassing of Tehran? I'd like to see it. 

No, but we'd smash every power plant and destroy every bridge and dam. Hello Afghanistan East.

Back in the real world, away from the cheap bluster, this won't happen because the US would want to be seen waging economic warfare against the Iranian people.

Diplomatically it would be an own goal following on from an Iranian aggression, I'd trust the state department and govt. to have a bit more sense and response in a more measured, effective way.

My guess would announces launching significant strikes to degrade the military capabilities of Iran, which would involve destroying strategic power and transportation links. The effect would be what Tim said. The gloves would have to come off.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Heh, so he gamed the game?

From what I recall, pretty much.  I think the people in charge viewed it more as "Stop cheating or GTFO."  There was a lot of money and time and such involved that they probably didn't want to waste on shenanigans. 

[Ed Anger]

As in: motorcycle couriers were relaying ALL communication from Lieutenants (or whatever) in the field to the big man up top.

Ah, the reverse Gamelin.

[lustindarkness]

Van Riper =  Down Periscope?

[alfred russel]

I was poking around the internet to see about the war game you are talking about, and it seems it was the Millennium Challenge 2002 that cost $250 million (!). The wikipedia article seems to leave the reader on van ripers side regarding fair play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

[Malthus]

I was poking around the internet to see about the war game you are talking about, and it seems it was the Millennium Challenge 2002 that cost $250 million (!). The wikipedia article seems to leave the reader on van ripers side regarding fair play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

The wiki article is cited upthread. And yes, the article is clearly in Van Ripper's corner, so to speak.

[grumbler]

In a wargame as Iran a US general managed to sink a carrier and some escorts using kamikaze speed boats and a fuckton of missiles. However the Navy said he broke the rules of the game and it didn't count.   

I love how the ignorant Timmays of the world make the general (who didn't understand the first thing about the realities of naval engagements) the "good guy" since he basically simply assumed that he won, announced that he won, and couldn't explain how he could have won.

Any exercise in which Red Forces assume that they have 100% operability/reliability, 100% situation awareness in 100% of their forces, and 100% communications reliability probably shouldn't count, even if that makes Timmays roll their eyes.  Maybe even especially when Timmays do that.

[Admiral Yi]

I think the main point is that it is abundantly clear by now that the US government doesn't give a shit about the civilian/humanitarian repercussions of its sanctions.

Is this a serious statement?

[Valmy]

I think the main point is that it is abundantly clear by now that the US government doesn't give a shit about the civilian/humanitarian repercussions of its sanctions.

Hey if Iran doesn't give a shit about the civilian/humanitarian repercussions of its actions how exactly are we supposed to for them?  They are the government of Iran not us.