The Occupy Movement - First Impressions.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I'm not getting the feeling of anything substantial re the occupy movement in England. From here it looks like a bunch of eccentrics and oddballs who we have only heard about because of a navel-gazing London-based media; well that, or maybe nothing at all, nobody has ever even mentioned them to me.

[mongers]

I'm not getting the feeling of anything substantial re the occupy movement in England. From here it looks like a bunch of eccentrics and oddballs who we have only heard about because of a navel-gazing London-based media; well that, or maybe nothing at all, nobody has ever even mentioned them to me.

I've pasted on these comments to some in the local group; I didn't get a lot of disagreement. 

[mongers]

I think I've managed to largely chase off the Polish conspiracy nut from one of the groups, but I can't help but feel I'm essentially trolling rather than anything constructive. 

Edit:
is starting a discussion topic the following title trolling ?:

Occupied by conspiracies ? Free the moment, Act in the real world, Now.


Kelvin V****
?


Scott F****

Not sure what you mean by this post? If you mean that there is no global agenda to enslave the human race by an elite group of interconected bloodlines who murder anyone they deem a threat while causing wars and economic poverty to keep the slaves in a state of perpetual paralysis through fear and starvation or in richer countries just being mind numbingly dumbed down through the myriad weapons of mass distraction in use, then i fear we will not achieve our goal in this occupy movement! If people still believe, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that we are not witnessing the final few moves on the global chessboard toward total dictatorship by an increasingly openly powerful elite who can bankrupt whole countries to install thier puppet technocrats rendering even the idea of democracy dead, then we are lost! We need to collectively wake up to the facts or we will not win this struggle against those who would enslave us as we cannot fight that which we deny even exists while wasting time arguing amongst ourselves about who is wearing the tinfoil hat!


Kelvin V****

bob what do you know about apathy ?


Gary S*****

You are referring to the historical tendency of capitalist accumulation, well described by Marx in the 1880s. BTW all bloodlines are connected!


Me

Scott Free wrote "interconected bloodlines" presumably you mean Illuminati and so forth ? Which I don't buy, if there really was such a sinister all powerful organisation killing anyone who opposes them, then there is no hope. Alternatively what if that isn't the case and because of the current significant historical, economic and political changes we now have a unique historical moment within which to act ? Just think what me might achieve if we put aside the paranoias and consider the real world and what needs to be done to make it a better place ?


Me

Kelvin V. said "bob what do you know about apathy ?" In what context ?


Leon P***

Yes, using some truth to justify a lot of BS. The point is it doesn't matter which conspiracy theorist is most right. What it inspires you to do is much more important. Anybody who thinks the world can be summed up in an amalgamation of youtube videos has a lot to learn.


Scott F****

We have been trained like pavlovian dogs to dismiss and ridicule anyone who dares utter the word conspiracy by its prefixation with the word "theory" and association with the lunatic fringe, thus neatly avoiding the whole issue while the conspirators remain in plain sight! That they have written, documented and published thier agenda is beyond dispute, that they get away with doing so is due to the fact that the majority of the people are dumbed down and distracted prescicely so the agenda remains invisible to all but those who research the bigger picture and it becomes easy to character assassinate them. I care not what you call these people, illuminati, royalty, capitalists etc, the effect is always the same, they get richer and more powerful while we get poorer and our freedoms denied! The reason i say interconnected bloodlines is that wealth and therefore power is accumulated in families through intermarriage whatever the dominant system in place at the time, capitalism just happens to be convenient in that it requires us to vote and thus consent to our own enslavement all the while believing that we have choice and are free! They are not ALL powerful, only our collective ignorance of our own enslavement renders them any power at all, for we are many and they are few!


Gary S****

Oh I can't be arsed to go through it all again: -
Never mind the Molochs: conspiracy theories, 'new world order', globalisation and the real agenda.


Scott F****

Ditto!


Me

So Scott, just imagine for a moment, that there isn't a big conspiracy in plain sight, it's just you, other people and the various historical, political and economic forces transitioning through the present, what do you do tomorrow, next week or next month to make our world a better place ?


Scott F***

Well i agree that wether there is a conspiratorial agenda or a farcical amalgamation of errors, the effects are the same and our collective response should be equally similar. Firstly revoke all consent to be governed, that is fundamental and the foundation of any steps toward freedom! Secondly, reclaim the land, our most basic neccessities of food and shelter depend on it and without being in control of it we are slaves to those who do! I would say that probably a slow managed break up of industrial farms into intentional eco comunities for those who want to leave the system would be a good place to start! This would free up money currently used in benefits/pensions etc, reducing the national debt for those still in the system while those opting out would have meaningful work of thier own choice!


Me

OK, that's a nice personal vision, but what do you do next week in order to take the first steps towards it ?


Scott F****

I am currently writing a feasability study / business plan to that effect, looking at land use under our current economic model and comparing it with the eco comunity model as well as how much money could be saved by gifting land to people who want to opt out of the system, this includes health benefits of a more natural lifestyle such as combating the obesity epidemic as well as the more obvious greener low carbon lifestyle! I am also networking with local transition town groups who are sympathetic to occupy as i think a cross fertilisation of ideas can only help strengthen both movements! Hope that helps, happy to elucidate more anytime :-)

[Admiral Yi]

Excellent use of nested dependent clauses by Scott F.

[mongers]

I was slating on the occupy facebook group, one of these freemen of the land gurus, and someone asked me "Do you have a youtube video channel to enlighten people or talk about your own journey?"

Interesting, it seems for some if not a sizeable minority, youtube for them is the major source of 'information' rather than the written word or conversations and presentations in the real world.

[CountDeMoney]

Less feasibility studies, more pipe bombs.

[mongers]

Less feasibility studies, more pipe bombs.

Are you trying to drum up more business for you company ?

[Darth Wagtaros]

We need more Carlists and Jacobites to get involved.

[mongers]

So I spent a fair bit of the day at the London St.Paul occupation.

Hmm, now I don't know what to think, I don't think I'll get my head around this movement and I don't think its worth any more of my effort.

My over-riding impression is of a 'golden opportunity' being missed, as an example, I participated in one of their meetings which was about the psychology of organising a protest movement and the main speaker seemed to be making the point that their organisation was non-hierarchical and was a horizontal movement.   Which is all well in good in a well meaning organisation, but it's strikes me as the easy option, rather than making the hard choices of presenting the rest of the world with a clear leadership advocating some specific measures.

The point I made to them, it's nice to be all warm, fuzzy and inclusive and have 17-18 different committees looking at various issues, but in the real world of increasing struggle and deprivation that a significant part of the population is now experiencing, they shouldn't delude themselves that there isn't a figure on the right, perhaps someone of Mosley's calibre out there.
Someone who's going to take these legitimate grievances and mould them in to an effective, hierarchical organisation that will prove far more effective at motiving people and forcing the political establishment to come to terms with it.  I don't think this went down especially well, but I though I should challenge some of the easy assumptions that being nice is enough.

Some of my friends from down here have been up there for several weeks, on and off, so have had much more experience of how the orgainisation works, so maybe I should wait for one of them to sum up how they feel about the occupy movement. 

[Admiral Yi]

That sums it up in a nutshell mongers.  You're supposed to decide on the cause and *then* protest, not the other way around.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Well said.  I don't understand what they think they are doing.  "THINGS.... STUFF... NEEDS TO CHANGE! To find out what we want to change talk to EVERYBODY."

When it started at Wall Street I thought it may cause some real change.  I don't know what, probably just some bread and circuses style crap that would play up on the blogs, but it degenerated so fast into a drum circle jerk. Almost as if it was planned that way.... Planned to fail!

[Eddie Teach]

I was slating on the occupy facebook group, one of these freemen of the land gurus, and someone asked me "Do you have a youtube video channel to enlighten people or talk about your own journey?"

Interesting, it seems for some if not a sizeable minority, youtube for them is the major source of 'information' rather than the written word or conversations and presentations in the real world.

People you meet on Facebook get their information online? Boggles the mind.

[mongers]

Had a enthusiastic and somewhat productive meeting of our local group in the week.
I was there in my unofficial role as outside observer, some of my suggestions met with a generally positive response.

I guess what interests me is that a fair few of the people there, whether consciously or not, want to partake in activities that make new social bonds between people and grow modest new social structures. 

My own emphasis is on doing practical stuff that has immediate results that benefit those taking part and some of the people they're trying to reach, rather than just gesture politics and demonstrating for the sake of it.

.......

[mongers]

......

So some of the people were back to posting somewhat odd stuff on the two open facebook groups within a few hours or a day or two, no big deal, there's a fair few wacky people about.

What did surprise me is one of the more leading lights of the group was perhaps reverting to type, or more likely just uncritically reposting 'meme' like material which nether the less includes this gem:

http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news319_protocols.html



It's a pity because myself and a couple of other people seemed to have 'chased off' a couple of the more extreme dingbats, but I guess this doesn't give me much option but to have a stand up head to head at the next meeting or deciding now to stop giving a fuck about some of these fruit-loops and walk away from the whole thing ?

Pity really as quite a few of the people are rather decent, concerned and are attempting to do worthwhile things for others, not at all like the charactertures portrayed in some sections of the media.   

[Richard Hakluyt]

"caricatures" old bean 


When people start going on about the protocols of the elders of Zion it is time to back out of the room.