The Occupy Movement - First Impressions.

[Ideologue]

Meh.  I thought it was going to be about a vanguard.  Instead it's the plot of Nightmare on Elm Street.

[mongers]

It's interesting the part fear and paranoia can sometimes plays in group dynamics; I'll tell you the story of the paedophile.

When I first encountered the local occupy group, one of the interesting people I spent some time chatting with was their chief legal representative in court, who styled himself a Lord something-something. 

Being partially deaf, I invariably mishear peoples surnames so often have to end up googling my guess to find out what it really was. So the next day googled turned this up, there was someone who appeared to be the same guy and had a name close to what I thought I'd heard, what showed up on the first page was that he'd been convicted for a sexual offence against some young boys a dozen or so earlier.

So I thought, I have a bit of a dilemma here, do I say anything about this to anyone ? I decided I'd ask a friend to make some discreet enquiries to see if really was guy mentioned in the newspaper reports and what sort of 'character' he was.

As it turned out, my friend, who unlike me, seems to know or know of, almost anyone of consequence in the conurbation was away on holiday for a week, so I didn't have a chance find out anything and then quietly bring my information to the attention of the leading light of the local group.   

Unfortunately, two or three days later, someone else appears to have googled about him, and rather than being circumspect or mulling over the issues involved, simply posted uncorroborated evidence on their public facebook group. 

And guess what happened, all hell broke loose, I have never in my life seen more grandstanding, argument, bitterness on any other internet 'forum' even including languish !

To cut a very long story short they split up into two somewhat bitter camps, which seemed to produce 4 or 5 different facebook groups. People accused each other in the opposing camp of being at best naive and at worst dupes or actually aiding and abetting this paedophile. 

Basically some went 'will no one think of the children' mad, which if they were a parent I could sort of understand, though I'd only ever seen an occasion one or two children about. Conflict even broke out between those who took part in the occupations and those who posted support solely on-line. 

In the end, someone threatened/warned him off, I think there was a final meeting of one of the groups were he agreed to stand down so as to not 'further harm' the groups' efforts.  And to some extent some of the divisions have been healed/papered over. 

What interests me is that they generally, with one or two honorary exception, reacted in what I'd see as an 'internet' generation way to a real life situation, rather than what I'd previously seen in similar situations before.

Ironically they ended up getting rid of their only truly effective legal representative, who'd initially got their first eviction halted and enabled them to stay for several weeks at their first site. Subsequently they've been eviction from three other location in relatively short order !

It also begs the question, once paedophiles have served their sentences, aren't they allowed to be contributory members of society or do they have no other role than to remain outside society and be used to scare children and parents alike ? 
For all I know this man could have been making a genuine effort to contribute to society.

As it turns out, when I eventually saw my friend, back from holiday, I only had to mention the name for him to recognise who it was and give me some of his form. It transpires, when we used to work with the homeless, we would put people into temporary accommodation volunteered to us and he was one of those helpers, that's probably why I was slightly familiar with his voice or name. 
However this was in the day before mandatory inspections and everything was done on trust, as it turns out my friend says he had reports the man had tried it on with some of the young adults sent to him. And that he had other form, in that he was a friend of a well-known national figure from our area, who it was privately know had a predilection for young boys, but was never convicted. So maybe he had a hidden agenda, after all, I don't know. 

And to bring the story full circle, last time I visited their last camp, someone talking about the paedophile said he though he'd been sent by the government to discredit them.

[Darth Wagtaros]

The Illuminati and their Jewish masters will stop at nothing to discredit the Movement.

[Neil]

To be fair, pedophiles are actually less wretched than Occupy types.

[mongers]

There are some divisions that in part seem founded on middle vs working class tensions.   

[mongers]

What annoys some of the more professional 'full-time' activists are the 'Freeman of the Land' advocates who seem to deal in a sort of libertarianism founded on unintentional misunderstandings of legal terms and some stuff that's complete fantasy.

A good example of the later is the posted in 'our' local group:

Scott F***
Capitalism, from the latin capita meaning head, from where we get the phrase per capita, which was a method of allocating resources to feed the massive roman armies that relied on slaves to farm and process etc. Capita diminutia maxima, the process by which a persons legal status was reduced to that of slave through the Capitalisation of thier NAME... Now go and check your drivers licence, bank cards, utility bills, in fact anything official at all... Yes, we really are all slaves under capitalism, and we all thought it was just business!
2 hours ago · Like · 2

My reply:

That's wrong, see:
http://www.the-romans.co.uk/p7hg_img_4/fullsize/Caesar2.jpg

[Sheilbh]

The 'freeman on the land' stuff is rubbish.  I liked this take apart of it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2011/nov/16/law-protest-occupy-freemen

[mongers]

The 'freeman on the land' stuff is rubbish.  I liked this take apart of it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2011/nov/16/law-protest-occupy-freemen

Shelf, I know, but it seems to have quite a lot of traction with a broad range of people I've encountered. 

Interestingly the 'formal' anarchists I've met have a real conflict with these guys.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Any Fifth Monarchists in the occupy movement yet?

[mongers]

Any Fifth Monarchists in the occupy movement yet?

No because they were quite influential in their time, but equally wrong headed.   

[Sheilbh]

I'd quite like the Occupiers to be moved to St. Mary's Putney.  They probably wouldn't be up for that

[mongers]

I'd quite like the Occupiers to be moved to St. Mary's Putney.  They probably wouldn't be up for that

Nice reference; I'd really like to see some genuine debate in the UK about such issues, but I think most politicians are predispossed to spin and PR rather than direction and principle.

[Admiral Yi]

I'd quite like the Occupiers to be moved to St. Mary's Putney.  They probably wouldn't be up for that

Care to enlighten us?

[mongers]

I'd quite like the Occupiers to be moved to St. Mary's Putney.  They probably wouldn't be up for that

Care to enlighten us?

Putney debates, between the 1st and 2nd civil war; army leadership debating with the radicals amongst the soldiery.

edit:
don't know if this site is any good but it's a start:

http://www.putneydebates.com/

[Sheilbh]

I'd quite like the Occupiers to be moved to St. Mary's Putney.  They probably wouldn't be up for that

Care to enlighten us?

Fifth Monarchists were religious fundamentalists who were involved in the politics of the Roundheads.

Putney Debates were a series of debates within the New Model Army, at St. Mary's Putney, about the ideal nature of the English constitution.  A highpoint of English radicalism until suppressed by Cromwell:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putney_Debates