Kim Jong-Il Dead

[KRonn]

Okay, I just now saw some video coverage of the public mourning.  Funniest damned thing I've seen in the news in quite a while.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/19/us-korea-north-idUSTRE7BI05B20111219?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

It's like they're all competing to out-mourn their neighbors.  Some look so ridiculous they almost look like they're laughing.  Looks like most/all the people shown were from a privileged class (i.e., are wearing clean clothes & not starving to death), so maybe some of that is legit.

Yeah, in some pics I saw the people looked well dressed and healthy, not the starving masses. They must have been in Pyonyang, the more elite of society.

[jimmy olsen]

If you watch Korean dramas you'll see that Koreans in general mourn in what looks like a completely over the top fashion to westerners, so the North Koreans having to mourn with even greater intensity for the Dear Leaders just have to go nuts.

[Razgovory]

I did notice that some of the people watching the announcement from inside a building were still wearing winter coats.  My guess is that they don't get much heat.  Some of the grief is likely genuine.  The man has been raised up to the level of a god in that country.  For many of them, he's the only leader they've ever known.  It's likely many actually believe the propaganda they get fed, after all, they have nothing to compare it to.  Obviously not all do.  They do have camps for dissenters and people are known to try make a run for Chinese border.  The North Koreans are truly a pitiful lot.

[Grey Fox]

Il was only in power for 17 years, He's no Castro & I doubt DPRK avg age is 17.

[Josquius]

I did notice that some of the people watching the announcement from inside a building were still wearing winter coats.  My guess is that they don't get much heat. 

I'd  hardly point too much blame at the North Korean regime for that. Badly insulated things is apparently quite the easy asian thing, its much the same in Japan :p

Some of the grief is likely genuine.  The man has been raised up to the level of a god in that country.  For many of them, he's the only leader they've ever known.

Not necessarily the case that they have just swallowed the propaganda but yes, he's been around for a while. Though life under him sucks it was a bit of stability. His son is totally unknown, he just suddenly appeared a  few years back. Nobody knows what to expect and that is worrying.

[Razgovory]

Il was only in power for 17 years, He's no Castro & I doubt DPRK avg age is 17.

Yeah, but someone who is 10 when he comes to power probably won't remember much about Kim Il Sung.

[Ed Anger]

He is just faking blindness.

[fhdz]

He is just faking blindness.

squee

[jimmy olsen]

I did notice that some of the people watching the announcement from inside a building were still wearing winter coats.  My guess is that they don't get much heat. 

I'd  hardly point too much blame at the North Korean regime for that. Badly insulated things is apparently quite the easy asian thing, its much the same in Japan :p

South Korea has that problem as well.

[merithyn]

First person to stop mourning gets executed.

This may be the case, actually. There was a professor of Asian studies on NPR today saying that when Kim Il-Sung died, those who didn't show enough grief were summarily arrested, tortured, and some killed. Those with a long memory will remember... and cry with gusto.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Hard times for dictators in twenty eleven.

It's hard to imagine the North Korean state can continue much longer in its present form. I predict attempted moderate, gradual reforms on the Deng Xiaoping model.

I think that if they did that, things would rapidly collapse as once the repression eases a bit, the people are going to vent all the pent up anger against the officials. It'll be bloody.

China wasn't in nearly as a bad shape as NK when they reformed.

[HisMajestyBOB]

I did notice that some of the people watching the announcement from inside a building were still wearing winter coats.  My guess is that they don't get much heat.  Some of the grief is likely genuine.  The man has been raised up to the level of a god in that country.  For many of them, he's the only leader they've ever known.  It's likely many actually believe the propaganda they get fed, after all, they have nothing to compare it to.  Obviously not all do.  They do have camps for dissenters and people are known to try make a run for Chinese border.  The North Koreans are truly a pitiful lot.

Not since the famine. Kim Il-Sung was and is looked on genuinely favorably in NK, and even by some defectors still. KJI is not.

[Razgovory]

Biased pool.  Those people are defectors.  Nobody knows what the average North Korean actually thinks about this stuff.  It's not like there are opinion polls, town halls, or letters to the editor.  Perhaps we will find out if this regime falls apart.

[Camerus]

Hard times for dictators in twenty eleven.

It's hard to imagine the North Korean state can continue much longer in its present form. I predict attempted moderate, gradual reforms on the Deng Xiaoping model.

I think that if they did that, things would rapidly collapse as once the repression eases a bit, the people are going to vent all the pent up anger against the officials. It'll be bloody.

China wasn't in nearly as a bad shape as NK when they reformed.

Oh, I am far from certain such reforms would work, either.  However, I would be surprised to see the N. Korean state still in its current form in a few years from now. 

[jimmy olsen]

Awesome talk that summarizes a lot of the stuff from his book "The Cleanest Race"

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/292562-1

B.R. Myers takes an in-depth look at North Korean society and the domestic propaganda to which its citizens are exposed.  Myers argues that North Korea is a paranoid, military-dominated nationalist state with a government that is influenced heavily by Japanese fascism.  ...