Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[DGuller]

It seems to me that this sort of thing is more effective than even OWS types being machine gunned.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/audio-slideshow-on-the-streets-in-one-of-americas-hardest-hit-communities/article2229596/

I always wondered whether typical American's view of poverty, and government programs aimed to combat it, are colored by the fact that certain social constructs seem to make up a disproportionate share of those below the line.

[Ideologue]

It seems to me that this sort of thing is more effective than even OWS types being machine gunned.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/audio-slideshow-on-the-streets-in-one-of-americas-hardest-hit-communities/article2229596/

I always wondered whether typical American's view of poverty, and government programs aimed to combat it, are colored by the fact that certain social constructs seem to make up a disproportionate share of those below the line.

Elaborate.

[DGuller]

The strong correlation between poverty and race turns the poor/rich issue into a black/white issue.  That also allows GOP, a party that in its current incarnation is decidedly the party of the oligarchs, appeal to the people whose economic interests it would be trampling on.

[The Brain]

I don't see wealth.

[Admiral Yi]

I always wondered whether typical American's view of poverty, and government programs aimed to combat it, are colored by the fact that certain social constructs seem to make up a disproportionate share of those below the line.

I think the typical American's view of government programs aimed to combat to poverty are strongly influenced by the failures and pathologies of Johnson's Great Society.

[Razgovory]

How much of it was actually a failure though?  Did poverty rates increase, decrease, or stay the same during the period?

[Admiral Yi]

How much of it was actually a failure though?  Did poverty rates increase, decrease, or stay the same during the period?

Poverty rate is a useless measure.  If median income goes up, a person that was not in poverty before is now in poverty.  And vice versa.

Teenage pregnancy, single mother households, inner city crime, drug use, pretty sure all those things went up.

[Razgovory]

Are those good indicators of poverty?  Doesn't seem so.  Teenage pregnancy increasing seems to be a good indicator of teenage pregnancy going up.  Not poverty.

[Admiral Yi]

Are those good indicators of poverty?  Doesn't seem so.  Teenage pregnancy increasing seems to be a good indicator of teenage pregnancy going up.  Not poverty.

Is change in the poverty rate the only possible metric for assessing the failure or pathology of an anti-poverty program?  Doesn't seem so.

[Razgovory]

Are those good indicators of poverty?  Doesn't seem so.  Teenage pregnancy increasing seems to be a good indicator of teenage pregnancy going up.  Not poverty.

Is change in the poverty rate the only possible metric for assessing the failure or pathology of an anti-poverty program?  Doesn't seem so.

Okay, So I found a graph that followed one of your metrics.



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Is it your contention that poverty has been steadily increasing since 1962?  The graph seems to indicate this, if indeed this is a useful metric of measuring poverty.

[Admiral Yi]

No, it is not my contention that poverty has been steadily increasing since 1962.  Because of the way we measure poverty, I would expect the poverty rate to be relatively steady.  Which is really the fundamental critique of the Great Society, since the intention of that bundle of programs was to remove people from poverty, rather than improving the living conditions of a permanent underclass.

My contention is that the Great Society, among other things, incentivized large, single mother families, and rendered black fathers a liability rather than an asset.

[Razgovory]

Do you have anything to actually prove all this?  From what I've seen the level of poverty by the way we measure poverty did not remain relatively steady during the 1960's, rather in declined dramatically.

[The Minsky Moment]

My contention is that the Great Society, among other things, incentivized large, single mother families, and rendered black fathers a liability rather than an asset.

I agree that Johnson erred in pushing through the Black Fathers as a Liability Act of 1965.

Or at least I would agree if that had actually happened.

[Admiral Yi]

I agree that Johnson erred in pushing through the Black Fathers as a Liability Act of 1965.

Or at least I would agree if that had actually happened.

I'm sure he gave it a different name.

[Ideologue]

Perhaps social disintegration simply strikes at the poor first, and blacks making up a disproportionate number of the poor in the U.S., it led to the (current) asymmetric result.