Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[garbon]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57325395/judge-rules-against-nyc-occupy-encampment/

Judge rules against NYC Occupy encampment

A New York judge has upheld the city's dismantling of the Occupy Wall Street encampment, saying that the protesters' first amendment rights don't entitle them to camp out indefinitely in the plaza.

State judge Michael Stallman on Tuesday denied a motion by the demonstrators seeking to be allowed back into the park with their tents and sleeping bags.

Police cleared out the protesters in a nighttime sweep early Tuesday. The judge upheld the city's effective eviction of the protesters after an emergency appeal by the National Lawyers Guild.

The protesters have been camped out in privately owned Zuccotti Park since mid-September. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said he ordered the sweep because health and safety conditions and become "intolerable" in the crowded plaza.

State court ruling on Occupy protest (PDF)

CBS News legal analyst Andrew Cohen reports that the key paragraph in the judge's ruling is as follows: "Here, movants have not demonstrated that the rules adopted by the owners of the property, concededly after the demonstrations began, are not reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions permitted under the First Amendment."

"Time, place and manner" restrictions on speech like the demonstrators had petitioned against have a long history in American law, going back at least to the 1960s. It is unlikely that this ruling will be overturned on appeal, if it is appealed at all.

Tents, sleeping bags and equipment were carted away, and by 4:30 a.m., the park was empty. It wasn't clear what would happen next to the demonstration, though the new enforcement of rules banning tents, sleeping bags or tarps would effectively end an encampment that started in mid-September.

"At the end of the day, if this movement is only tied to Liberty Plaza, we are going to lose. We're going to lose," said Sandra Nurse, one of the organizers, referring to another name for the park. "Right now the most important thing is coming together as a body and just reaffirm why we're here in the first place."

[Razgovory]

I think it was a shift in morality.  Interestingly, the legalization of abortion and birth control seems to have had little effect.

[crazy canuck]

I think it was a shift in morality.  Interestingly, the legalization of abortion and birth control seems to have had little effect.

I am wondering about under reporting in the past.

[Admiral Yi]

"Liberty Plaza?"  Justice Plaza I could maybe see, but Liberty Plaza?

[crazy canuck]

New York and some other cities went about this the right way.  They view it as enforcement of their by-laws and have sent the appropriate authorities in the enforce the law.  Then the Courts get to decide if there has been any constitutional violation.

Here in Vancouver the Major and counsel wanted to avoid making the political decision and have sought an injunction Order from the court requiring the protestors to leave.  In other words the City is asking the Court to enforce the law.  In my view politicians should not ask the Courts what should be done.  The Courts are there to determine whether the actions of government met the constitutional standard - not to tell everyone what to do.

[Razgovory]

I think it was a shift in morality.  Interestingly, the legalization of abortion and birth control seems to have had little effect.

I am wondering about under reporting in the past.

I doubt it could explain that much of a discrepancy, besides it was increasing dramatically before Roe v Wade made it federally protected.

Yi, do you anything else to support your previous statements?

[Admiral Yi]

Yi, do you anything else to support your previous statements?

Take a look at Daniel Moynihan's report on the black family.

[Razgovory]

Yi, do you anything else to support your previous statements?

Take a look at Daniel Moynihan's report on the black family.

Why?  What does that have to do with anything?

[Admiral Yi]

Why?  What does that have to do with anything?

It was the original critique of the Great Society.  By a leading Democrat, God bless his soul.

[Razgovory]

Why?  What does that have to do with anything?

It was the original critique of the Great Society.  By a leading Democrat, God bless his soul.

That's nice.  So it was a failure because someone who is  long dead wrote something a long time ago that said black people don't get married as much anymore?  Sorry Yi, that doesn't really make sense.  Try again.

I still don't understand how you are moving from minority single mothers to poverty levels.  How does one relate to the other?  I posted a graph that showed the number of single mothers for all Hispanic and whites grew as well, especially after 1980.  How does this relate to you poverty theories?  Did poverty increase, decrease or stay the same during the 1980's and 1990's?

Because of the way we measure poverty, I would expect the poverty rate to be relatively steady.  Which is really the fundamental critique of the Great Society, since the intention of that bundle of programs was to remove people from poverty, rather than improving the living conditions of a permanent underclass.

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It would appear the poverty rate does not do what you expect it to.  Perhaps the problem lies not in our method of measuring poverty but your expectations.

[Neil]

That's nice.  So it was a failure because someone who is  long dead wrote something a long time ago that said black people don't get married as much anymore?  Sorry Yi, that doesn't really make sense.  Try again.

Why doesn't that makes sense?  Marriage is the most desirable social goal, as it has a tendency to civilize everyone involved.  Black people don't get married as much, and they've slipped further and further into a barbarity akin to their original condition in Africa.

[Admiral Yi]

I wish you could have just posted that before asking for support Raz.  Would have saved me a little time.

[Razgovory]

I wish you could have just posted that before asking for support Raz.  Would have saved me a little time.

Explain.

[Admiral Yi]

Explain.

What would be the point?

[Razgovory]

Explain.

What would be the point?

I like for you to provide your own rope.