Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

Started by garbon, October 02, 2011, 04:31:46 PM

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garbon

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57325395/judge-rules-against-nyc-occupy-encampment/

QuoteJudge rules against NYC Occupy encampment

A New York judge has upheld the city's dismantling of the Occupy Wall Street encampment, saying that the protesters' first amendment rights don't entitle them to camp out indefinitely in the plaza.

State judge Michael Stallman on Tuesday denied a motion by the demonstrators seeking to be allowed back into the park with their tents and sleeping bags.

Police cleared out the protesters in a nighttime sweep early Tuesday. The judge upheld the city's effective eviction of the protesters after an emergency appeal by the National Lawyers Guild.

The protesters have been camped out in privately owned Zuccotti Park since mid-September. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said he ordered the sweep because health and safety conditions and become "intolerable" in the crowded plaza.

State court ruling on Occupy protest (PDF)

CBS News legal analyst Andrew Cohen reports that the key paragraph in the judge's ruling is as follows: "Here, movants have not demonstrated that the rules adopted by the owners of the property, concededly after the demonstrations began, are not reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions permitted under the First Amendment."

"Time, place and manner" restrictions on speech like the demonstrators had petitioned against have a long history in American law, going back at least to the 1960s. It is unlikely that this ruling will be overturned on appeal, if it is appealed at all.

Tents, sleeping bags and equipment were carted away, and by 4:30 a.m., the park was empty. It wasn't clear what would happen next to the demonstration, though the new enforcement of rules banning tents, sleeping bags or tarps would effectively end an encampment that started in mid-September.

"At the end of the day, if this movement is only tied to Liberty Plaza, we are going to lose. We're going to lose," said Sandra Nurse, one of the organizers, referring to another name for the park. "Right now the most important thing is coming together as a body and just reaffirm why we're here in the first place."

:punk:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Razgovory

I think it was a shift in morality.  Interestingly, the legalization of abortion and birth control seems to have had little effect.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

crazy canuck

Quote from: Razgovory on November 15, 2011, 05:42:36 PM
I think it was a shift in morality.  Interestingly, the legalization of abortion and birth control seems to have had little effect.

I am wondering about under reporting in the past.

Admiral Yi

"Liberty Plaza?"  Justice Plaza I could maybe see, but Liberty Plaza?

crazy canuck

New York and some other cities went about this the right way.  They view it as enforcement of their by-laws and have sent the appropriate authorities in the enforce the law.  Then the Courts get to decide if there has been any constitutional violation.

Here in Vancouver the Major and counsel wanted to avoid making the political decision and have sought an injunction Order from the court requiring the protestors to leave.  In other words the City is asking the Court to enforce the law.  In my view politicians should not ask the Courts what should be done.  The Courts are there to determine whether the actions of government met the constitutional standard - not to tell everyone what to do.

Razgovory

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 15, 2011, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 15, 2011, 05:42:36 PM
I think it was a shift in morality.  Interestingly, the legalization of abortion and birth control seems to have had little effect.

I am wondering about under reporting in the past.

I doubt it could explain that much of a discrepancy, besides it was increasing dramatically before Roe v Wade made it federally protected.

Yi, do you anything else to support your previous statements?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on November 15, 2011, 07:18:05 PM
Yi, do you anything else to support your previous statements?

Take a look at Daniel Moynihan's report on the black family.

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2011, 07:19:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 15, 2011, 07:18:05 PM
Yi, do you anything else to support your previous statements?

Take a look at Daniel Moynihan's report on the black family.

Why?  What does that have to do with anything?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on November 15, 2011, 07:38:00 PM
Why?  What does that have to do with anything?

It was the original critique of the Great Society.  By a leading Democrat, God bless his soul.

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2011, 07:45:29 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 15, 2011, 07:38:00 PM
Why?  What does that have to do with anything?

It was the original critique of the Great Society.  By a leading Democrat, God bless his soul.

That's nice.  So it was a failure because someone who is  long dead wrote something a long time ago that said black people don't get married as much anymore?  Sorry Yi, that doesn't really make sense.  Try again.

I still don't understand how you are moving from minority single mothers to poverty levels.  How does one relate to the other?  I posted a graph that showed the number of single mothers for all Hispanic and whites grew as well, especially after 1980.  How does this relate to you poverty theories?  Did poverty increase, decrease or stay the same during the 1980's and 1990's?

QuoteBecause of the way we measure poverty, I would expect the poverty rate to be relatively steady.  Which is really the fundamental critique of the Great Society, since the intention of that bundle of programs was to remove people from poverty, rather than improving the living conditions of a permanent underclass.



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It would appear the poverty rate does not do what you expect it to.  Perhaps the problem lies not in our method of measuring poverty but your expectations.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Neil

Quote from: Razgovory on November 15, 2011, 07:59:24 PM
That's nice.  So it was a failure because someone who is  long dead wrote something a long time ago that said black people don't get married as much anymore?  Sorry Yi, that doesn't really make sense.  Try again.
Why doesn't that makes sense?  Marriage is the most desirable social goal, as it has a tendency to civilize everyone involved.  Black people don't get married as much, and they've slipped further and further into a barbarity akin to their original condition in Africa.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Admiral Yi

I wish you could have just posted that before asking for support Raz.  Would have saved me a little time.

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2011, 08:03:57 PM
I wish you could have just posted that before asking for support Raz.  Would have saved me a little time.

Explain.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017


Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017