Britain burns - Chavs ruin civilization

[Viking]

But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.

No, it's a culture of entitlement.

yes, the belief that they are entitled to reject the authority of the state and they feel entitled to use the mere presence of an "institutionally racist" metropolitan police force on the streets after a fire fight where the criminal lost to the cops.

[Palisadoes]

I think most people would like our police to take a firmer stance and more preventative action, though this seems to be equally criticised (ironically the Guardian is usually carrying the torch in criticising the police). The police can never win!

[Viking]

Who is ABB?

[Martinus]

But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.

No, it's a culture of entitlement.

yes, the belief that they are entitled to reject the authority of the state and they feel entitled to use the mere presence of an "institutionally racist" metropolitan police force on the streets after a fire fight where the criminal lost to the cops.

Nah, I think you got it wrong. What's happening in the streets of London is not *because* of something special - it's just juvenile delinquents behaving the way juvenile delinquents behave. There is nothing special that differentiates them from juvenile delinquents in Paris, Berlin or Warsaw.

The difference is in the lack of proper (not necessarily more violent, but faster and more decisive) response from the police. But with goofs like Boris Johnson running the city, it's to be expected (it's a pity the choice there seems to be really between equally incompetent and detestable Johnson and Livingstone).

[Barrister]

But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.

No, it's a culture of entitlement.

I think it's more basic - just a lack of respect for authority, for the rights of others.  Going out rooting is just seen as "fun" if they think they can get away with it.

[Viking]

After two decades of being under attack for being racist, cruel, brutal and inhuman they have tried to satisfy the demands of the unsatisfiable. The "community" seems to have immediately jumped to the conclusion of murder and the mere presence of police on the streets that they are supposed to keep safe is seen as a provocation.

I'm not referring to the chaos and looting related to the rioting; that is the local yobs just stealing shit cause they can get away with it. I referring to the issue that provoked the riots. A notorious criminal pulls a gun on the police, gets shot. The population then revolts against the insult of the police being on the streets itself.

[Martinus]

Panic on the streets of London
Panic on the streets of Birmingham
I wonder to myself
Could life ever be sane again ?
The Leeds side-streets that you slip down
I wonder to myself
Hopes may rise on the Grasmere
But Honey Pie, you're not safe here
So you run down
To the safety of the town
But there's Panic on the streets of Carlisle
Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
I wonder to myself

Burn down the disco
Hang the blessed DJ
Because the music that they constantly play
IT SAYS NOTHING TO ME ABOUT MY LIFE
Hang the blessed DJ
Because the music they constantly play


On the Leeds side-streets that you slip down
Provincial towns you jog 'round
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ

[Tamas]

Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ?

Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.

I don't understand why did not those happen this afternoon the latest. Even the Hungarian police knew they need to be deployed in case of a riot.

[Barrister]

Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ?

Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.

I don't understand why did not those happen this afternoon the latest. Even the Hungarian police knew they need to be deployed in case of a riot.

I'm pretty sure the Hungarian police are less concerned about appearing to be 'sensitive' and not urged to engage in 'dialogue'.

[Ed Anger]

I enjoyed the live coverage on CNN international.

[The Brain]

If the state doesn't think it's its job to maintain law and order in the streets why pay any taxes?

In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.

[Neil]

Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ?

Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.

I read an interesting editorial in the Guardian, where the author claimed this is a result of the police effectively abdicating control over the "rough neighborhoods" by refusing to engage in good old fashioned crime prevention there.

Your politicians and policemen should really read some books about Sam Vimes.

The Guardian's opinion pages might carry more weight if they didn't disregard crime prevention as racist.

[garbon]

The Burberry revolution.

Yes that's what I was thinking.

[Barrister]

In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.

No.  Not at all.

But if simple platitudes about how easy fighting crime is makes you happy, then I don't want to take that away from you.

[Warspite]

"Good old fashioned" crime prevention got us the riots of the 1980s, something the crush'em law 'n' order crowd seem to forget.

This is essentially a dispersed series of hit and run lootings, setting alight to the odd building which provides a powerful visual point long after the rioters have been cleared.

I can't help but feel a bit blase about all this, but maybe that's because the last riot I lived through turned into a pogrom and saw the fall of a dictator.