"The End of the Space Age"

[Siege]

I can see omnivores as being superior to carnivores, but why carnivores would be superior to herbivores, from the point of view of evolving?

[sbr]

I can see omnivores as being superior to carnivores, but why carnivores would be superior to herbivores, from the point of view of evolving?

Meat eaters probably eat less by volume and don't need to eat as often. Just a guess.

[Neil]

I can see omnivores as being superior to carnivores, but why carnivores would be superior to herbivores, from the point of view of evolving?

Meat eaters probably eat less by volume and don't need to eat as often. Just a guess.

Yep.  Meat contains more energy per given volume, so they don't have to spend all their time eating just to keep their body working.

[HVC]

I can see omnivores as being superior to carnivores, but why carnivores would be superior to herbivores, from the point of view of evolving?

Better is a bit disingenuous (fail rates for predators hunting are still very high), but it's assumed they're smarter than prey. Theory goes that predators are smarter since the need a strategy of some sort. prey just need to know how to run and hide.

[Neil]

Better is a bit disingenuous (fail rates for predators hunting are still very high), but it's assumed they're smarter than prey. Theory goes that predators are smarter since the need a strategy of some sort. prey just need to know how to run and hide.

Mind you, some of the pack hunters have very high kill rates.  I'm thinking the wild dogs of Africa, for example.

[HVC]

Better is a bit disingenuous (fail rates for predators hunting are still very high), but it's assumed they're smarter than prey. Theory goes that predators are smarter since the need a strategy of some sort. prey just need to know how to run and hide.

Mind you, some of the pack hunters have very high kill rates.  I'm thinking the wild dogs of Africa, for example.

African wild dogs have an insane kill rate, but they're methd of hunting is different then most. they just keep chasing the animal at low speed so until it's too tired. Other cananines, like wolves, still have low success rates. most predators are at best ambush hunters. trying to catch weak prey off guard, but after an unsuccessful attempt kind of lay down and go "ahhh fuck it"

[Razgovory]

I can see omnivores as being superior to carnivores, but why carnivores would be superior to herbivores, from the point of view of evolving?

Better is a bit disingenuous (fail rates for predators hunting are still very high), but it's assumed they're smarter than prey. Theory goes that predators are smarter since the need a strategy of some sort. prey just need to know how to run and hide.

They can also be smarter because they eat meat.  Big brains require lots of energy.

[Neil]

Better is a bit disingenuous (fail rates for predators hunting are still very high), but it's assumed they're smarter than prey. Theory goes that predators are smarter since the need a strategy of some sort. prey just need to know how to run and hide.

Mind you, some of the pack hunters have very high kill rates.  I'm thinking the wild dogs of Africa, for example.

African wild dogs have an insane kill rate, but they're methd of hunting is different then most. they just keep chasing the animal at low speed so until it's too tired. Other cananines, like wolves, still have low success rates. most predators are at best ambush hunters. trying to catch weak prey off guard, but after an unsuccessful attempt kind of lay down and go "ahhh fuck it"

Yeah.  Ambush predation is a risky business.  As our primitive ancestors could tell you (if they had language skills), persistance brings victory.

[Neil]

They can also be smarter because they eat meat.  Big brains require lots of energy.

Yeah.  If you're a herbivore, you're probably better off putting your excess energy into becoming larger rather than a big brain and the support structures that such a brain requires.

[Razgovory]

Yeah.  Ambush predation is a risky business.  As our primitive ancestors could tell you (if they had language skills), persistance brings victory.

Some Bushmen still hunt that way.  Takes like six hours or something.  I bet Aboriginal Australians (who lacked bows) hunted that way as well till the British got there.

[Barrister]

They can also be smarter because they eat meat.  Big brains require lots of energy.

Yeah.  If you're a herbivore, you're probably better off putting your excess energy into becoming larger rather than a big brain and the support structures that such a brain requires.

Why?  A big brain could certainly assist a herbivore as well - both in finding / gatehring food, as well as avoiding predators.

Not all herbivores are ruminants, which may be what you are thinking of when you think of herbivores.  A lot of rodents are fairly intelligent.  The beaver, for example.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah.  Ambush predation is a risky business.  As our primitive ancestors could tell you (if they had language skills), persistance brings victory.

Some Bushmen still hunt that way.  Takes like six hours or something.  I bet Aboriginal Australians (who lacked bows) hunted that way as well till the British got there.

Yes, ambushing the British probably took much less time.

[jimmy olsen]

Better is a bit disingenuous (fail rates for predators hunting are still very high), but it's assumed they're smarter than prey. Theory goes that predators are smarter since the need a strategy of some sort. prey just need to know how to run and hide.

Mind you, some of the pack hunters have very high kill rates.  I'm thinking the wild dogs of Africa, for example.

African wild dogs have an insane kill rate, but they're methd of hunting is different then most. they just keep chasing the animal at low speed so until it's too tired.

That used to be one of the main human strategies before we invented projectile weapons.

[Ideologue]

The issue with size is food requirements and energy usage, especially for herbivores.  Obviously it doesn't hurt having a very large skull and brain, but at the same time the elephant has an extremely elaborate cooling system for their heads to help overcome the heat.  They still need to add significant complexity to their brains in order to increase their intelligence, and they're going to have a lot of trouble with that without reducing their size.  And as the temperature increases, those problems are going to be exacerbated.

Assuming a world without humans, they could migrate north (or other elphantid branches that did live north might have lost their hair).  Of course, without humans, there'd be less (or none, or negative) rise in temperatures.

Of course, I have to assume a world without humans, because we arrived first, and are too well adapted to really share our habitat, which is virtually everywhere, with other megafauna.

By the way, Tyr, I liked that painting.  Something to do with Larry Niven?

[jimmy olsen]

By the way, Tyr, I liked that painting.  Something to do with Larry Niven?

You've never read Footfall!

It's one of the greatest alien invasion novels ever written, go to your library at once!