[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Grey Fox]

You know viper. There are other things a country needs to run than economic interest. While the PC might have done "good" in that sense, they practicly destroyed everything else we had going. It's going to be expensive to rebuilt. Sure, Liberals friends are going to get rich. It is the price to pay to have a Federal system that does things other than create & populate fears.

[Valmy]

You are missing the point.  The US does not have a political tradition of a left of centre governing party welcoming immigrants.

The Democrats are anti-immigrant? News to me but if you say so.

Why do immigrants support a party that won't put restrictions on healthcare access etc?  The answer seems obvious.

I am not so sure immigrants are universally as left wing economically as you think. But even if they wanted to vote right wing the whole xenophobic thing trips it up.

[garbon]

You are missing the point.  The US does not have a political tradition of a left of centre governing party welcoming immigrants.

The Democrats are anti-immigrant? News to me but if you say so.

Why do immigrants support a party that won't put restrictions on healthcare access etc?  The answer seems obvious.

I am not so sure immigrants are universally as left wing economically as you think. But even if they wanted to vote right wing the whole xenophobic thing trips it up.

I think as usual, CC is just being difficult. I don't see why one can't draw parallels between immigrants supporting the Liberals and immigrants supporting the Dems.  I think that there is something to be said that if right wing parties (with the most backwards social views) didn't also put their bullseyes on immigrants, they could do much better with commonly held conservative thoughts. Sort of like how you see many latinos in California are dems but then vote on something like gay marriage and they copy the stance of Republicans.

[Grey Fox]

You are missing the point.  The US does not have a political tradition of a left of centre governing party welcoming immigrants.

The Democrats are anti-immigrant? News to me but if you say so.

Why do immigrants support a party that won't put restrictions on healthcare access etc?  The answer seems obvious.

I am not so sure immigrants are universally as left wing economically as you think. But even if they wanted to vote right wing the whole xenophobic thing trips it up.

Garbon his right he's being difficult but he means the Democrats are not left.

[Valmy]

I don't think the Canadian right wingness of the Democrats is relevant. The immigrants all vote for the Social Democrats in Sweden and they are most certainly left. But no way would those immigrants vote for such a party back where they came from. Or so I think. Maybe socialist left wing types just love immigrating to Sweden.

[viper37]

Seriously, what is Harper's legacy?

• Canada once again respected by NATO instead of being criticized every 2 weeks for not pulling our share.
  
• Less taxes, less debts.
  
• Middle class better off than under the Liberals.
  
• French speakers got some well deserved respect.  No Prime Minister in the history of Canada has ever asked his ministers to learn both official languages of the country
  
• Commissionner to official languages has noted a lot of improvements on this front
  
• Economy is in a much better shape than it was under the Liberals
  
• We finally have some decent helicopters than don't require 40hrs of maintenance for each hour of flight and we have a modern surface navy.  The only thing left was the airplanes, but the Liberals are promising to repeat history.  I guess the life of a soldier does not account for much under Liberal rule.
  
• Greenhouse gases have started going down, something the Liberals never did, despite signing Kyoto.  Action is better than words.
  
• Fiscal imbalance was solved, now it will become a nightmare again.
  
• The Federal government was respectful of the provinces, mostly letting them do their own things and concentrate on its own business
  
• Canada is still a very tolerant place, except for its usual francophobia and Quebec bashing, despite good efforts from Harper and the government was finally starting to react to the radicalisation of our youths and the threat of radical islam.
  

There are others, but off the top of my head, that's the good things I'll remember about him.  There's a lot of bad, but in all honesty, it's not different than the previous Liberal governements.

Election fraud?  The Libs were champions.  Busload of immigrants just freshly sworn in and brought to the polls with buses the colors of the Liberal Party, with people "advising" them whom to vote for.  Sponshorship.  Corruption.

Wedge politics?  The Libs were champion, with Chrétien always posing himself as a victim.  Quebec vs Canada, all the time.
French vs English since Wilfrid Laurier.

Monarchy.  Harper brought it to the light, much to my displeasure, as I think Canada should move forward, not backward.  But no other party has promised to abolish monarchy, or as even criticized the government for that.

More socially conservative?  Well, let me see.  Abortion is legal, and there are nothing in any Federal laws or policies that would make it harder for women seeking abortions.  Gay marriage is legal and there are nothing in any Federal laws or policies that would make it more difficult for a gay couple to marry or adopt a child.  Despite the extreme religiousness of many Conservative MPs, gays are not harassed and there are no picket lines in front of abortion clinics.  Despite critics to the contrary, there has been no anti-immigration policies and in the last two years Canada has greeted more refugees than the Liberals ever did.

Warriors.  Yes, the Conservatives took Canada to a more active role. Instead of standing by to watch people get slaughtered or be reprimanded when they fought to protect civilians, they actively engaged the ennemy, protecting civilians, and we weren't afraid of showing our support to our brave soldiers, contrary to the Liberals who did everything they could to diminish it (how many Canadians know about the battle of Medak pocket for example?  Many still thing we simply went there to deliver rice bags without incidents and the problems were solved all by themselves).  They re-established an elite unit, disbanded by the Libs after the Somalia incidents.  I don't read in the papers every few weeks that Canada is unable to commit to its NATO obligations anymore.  I think we needed that.

Hidden agenda.  So far, I have not seen this famous hidden agenda.  They did exactly what they promised they would do, with little to no surprise.  Except for the monarchy thing.

I went from Quebec seperatist to proud Canadian.  And I wasn't alone.  Now, it's all lost.

[Jacob]

You know viper. There are other things a country needs to run than economic interest. While the PC might have done "good" in that sense, they practicly destroyed everything else we had going. It's going to be expensive to rebuilt. Sure, Liberals friends are going to get rich. It is the price to pay to have a Federal system that does things other than create & populate fears.

It's a change from Conservative friends getting rich, but there may be some additional changes as well.

[viper37]

I am commenting on something I see everywhere in the developed world not just the US and Canada. But just because I think I see something doesn't mean it is true. Maybe immigrants from the Middle East are all about Western left wing values they are coming here after all.

Immigrants from the Maghreb area tend to be very much to the left.  Most of them were educated in French schools or universities by the time they come here, so they've been influenced by that.   I guess for France, it's either be to the left or be seen as pro-FN in the big cities.

[Josephus]

• The Federal government was respectful of the provinces, mostly letting them do their own things and concentrate on its own business
  

LOLZ.

That's like saying a parent who ignores his children is "letting them do their own things."

Harper basically treated the provinces with the most disrespect.

[viper37]

Move to France it is best. Just do not move to Paris. Go be Ed's next door neighbor in Normandy. Hey aren't most Quebecois descended from Normans and Bretons anyway?

Most?  I do not know.  But my paternal ancestors were definately from Normandy.  On my mother's side, they came from Poitou.

[viper37]

• The Federal government was respectful of the provinces, mostly letting them do their own things and concentrate on its own business
  

LOLZ.

That's like saying a parent who ignores his children is "letting them do their own things."

Harper basically treated the provinces with the most disrespect.

if you take the hand of your 22 year old to cross the street, I'm sorry to say, but you are not a good parent.

[viper37]

You know viper. There are other things a country needs to run than economic interest. While the PC might have done "good" in that sense, they practicly destroyed everything else we had going. It's going to be expensive to rebuilt. Sure, Liberals friends are going to get rich. It is the price to pay to have a Federal system that does things other than create & populate fears.

see what I posted a few pages ago about the myths spread by anti-conservatives.  Most of what they say is untrue.

Besides, nothing is more important than economy.  You want to attract quality immigration?  You need a good economy.  You want science to be well funded?  You need rich people.  You want a strong middle class?  You need a good economy.  You want a decent school system?  You need a good economy.  You want a top of the line university education?  You need money to fund it, ergo, a strong economy.  Just about everything goes back to the economy.

[viper37]

It's a change from Conservative friends getting rich, but there may be some additional changes as well.

Really?  We've seem massive corruption?  Use of public funds for party related activities?  Contracts exclusively awarded to party donators?  Where??

[Grey Fox]

Ah, defeat it hurts.

[viper37]

yes, it does.