[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

We've seen electoral fraud.

Just like the Liberals.

Yes, the continual spending of public money to advertise the accomplishments of the Harper government.

All governments in Canada do that.  The NDP used public funds for its party activities and illegal donations by unions.

The country's economy run for the benefit of the oil industry.

The tax credits in place for the oil industry where put in place by Paul Martin, under Chrétien's rule.
Provinces manage their natural resources, so lay your blame to Alberta and Sakastchewan governments.

Aside that, business is booming, it was slow to pick up around here, but september was crazy and so is october and so will be next november and I already had prospects for next spring, but now, things are uncertain.

[garbon]

I didn't say so.  I merely observe there is no comparator to the Liberal party in the US political experience.  What Democrat outside of Sanders wants to promote the kinds of social democratic policies that are fundamental to the Liberal platform?  Those policies, together with a strong commitment to multiculturalism (another concept somewhat foreign to the American melting pot paradigm) has attracted the immigrant vote to the Liberal party for a long time.  So I say again, your first assertion makes no sense in the Canadian context. 

I am capable of knowing things about places outside of the US ok? I already moved it over to Sweden so you can stop with the American provincialism high horse stuff.

Besides what is 'multiculturalism' besides adopting a conservative approach to immigrant cultures? That I already mentioned.

That fact you misunderstand the Canadian definition of multiculturalism makes the claim made in your first sentence a bit doubtful 

Of course, the American melting pot model is something that is looked at with disgust these days.

[Valmy]

That fact you misunderstand the Canadian definition of multiculturalism makes the claim made in your first sentence a bit doubtful 

Or don't and just keep talking shit. Whatever.

[Valmy]

Of course, the American melting pot model is something that is looked at with disgust these days.

Yeah I did not want to get into that either. I think it is rather tangential to what I was getting at.

[crazy canuck]

I didn't say so.  I merely observe there is no comparator to the Liberal party in the US political experience.  What Democrat outside of Sanders wants to promote the kinds of social democratic policies that are fundamental to the Liberal platform?  Those policies, together with a strong commitment to multiculturalism (another concept somewhat foreign to the American melting pot paradigm) has attracted the immigrant vote to the Liberal party for a long time.  So I say again, your first assertion makes no sense in the Canadian context. 

I am capable of knowing things about places outside of the US ok? I already moved it over to Sweden so you can stop with the American provincialism high horse stuff.

Besides what is 'multiculturalism' besides adopting a conservative approach to immigrant cultures? That I already mentioned.

That fact you misunderstand the Canadian definition of multiculturalism makes the claim made in your first sentence a bit doubtful 

Of course, the American melting pot model is something that is looked at with disgust these days.

No, its just different.  A nuance you and Valmy seem to be missing when trying to understand why the Liberal party has traditionally been the strong choice for immigrant voters despite the claim that they should be naturally drawn to a conservative party. 

[viper37]

That fact you misunderstand the Canadian definition of multiculturalism makes the claim made in your first sentence a bit doubtful 

Or don't and just keep talking shit. Whatever.

English Canadians are very touchy about any kind of analogy that would remotely, maybe, make them not too dissimilar from their American cousins.

[Jacob]

That fact you misunderstand the Canadian definition of multiculturalism makes the claim made in your first sentence a bit doubtful 

Or don't and just keep talking shit. Whatever.

Well... you seem to be arguing for a fairly broad generalization. I think it's reasonable to pick at the details that don't seem fit, which is what I think CC is doing.

I'd join in, but I'm not sure what you mean by "Besides what is 'multiculturalism' besides adopting a conservative approach to immigrant cultures?" nor am I quite sure what you're driving at to be honest.

[viper37]

Of course, the American melting pot model is something that is looked at with disgust these days.

Your future President has promised firs to deport all Mexicans immigrant back to Mexico, and when he did not gain enough votes, he promised to deport all Syrians back to Syria and then his numbers reached sky high, until another idiot made a more idiotic comment.

[Liep]

Don't worry. You sound like the right wing here when they lost the last time around. What happened? The social democrats didn't ruin the country, in fact we're a little better off. The rich are much better off, the poor only a little worse.

Now the right wing won and the reds are crying about inequality that they themselves didn't do anything about, about how the right will destroy the environment which they probably won't, because, you know, they didn't the last time either.

[Valmy]

Well... you seem to be arguing for a fairly broad generalization. I think it's reasonable to pick at the details that don't seem fit, which is what I think CC is doing.

I'd join in, but I'm not sure what you mean by "Besides what is 'multiculturalism' besides adopting a conservative approach to immigrant cultures?" nor am I quite sure what you're driving at to be honest.

Yes it is a fairly broad generalization. I am talking about something I observe in every single Western Nation so it must be  I was just commenting that there is a lot of opportunities for right wing parties to move in and get votes from immigrants since they speak to alot of their values but they keep fucking it  up with xenophobia and driving them into the arms of left wing parties. Generally I don't think most of those immigrants are left wing naturally. I could be wrong.

What I meant by that other comment was that instead of trying to radically reform traditional culture, which is what left wing parties tend to call for, they instead are in favor of protection or respect for the traditional cultures of the immigrants.

[garbon]

I didn't say so.  I merely observe there is no comparator to the Liberal party in the US political experience.  What Democrat outside of Sanders wants to promote the kinds of social democratic policies that are fundamental to the Liberal platform?  Those policies, together with a strong commitment to multiculturalism (another concept somewhat foreign to the American melting pot paradigm) has attracted the immigrant vote to the Liberal party for a long time.  So I say again, your first assertion makes no sense in the Canadian context. 

I am capable of knowing things about places outside of the US ok? I already moved it over to Sweden so you can stop with the American provincialism high horse stuff.

Besides what is 'multiculturalism' besides adopting a conservative approach to immigrant cultures? That I already mentioned.

That fact you misunderstand the Canadian definition of multiculturalism makes the claim made in your first sentence a bit doubtful 

Of course, the American melting pot model is something that is looked at with disgust these days.

No, its just different.

I'm sure there is a difference (as we aren't actually the same society) but it certainly isn't that the American melting pot is a concept that is looked on with great esteem these days. More like something that belongs in the dustbin of history. Already when I was in school, we'd moved onto a salad bowl metaphor.

[garbon]

Of course, the American melting pot model is something that is looked at with disgust these days.

Your future President has promised firs to deport all Mexicans immigrant back to Mexico, and when he did not gain enough votes, he promised to deport all Syrians back to Syria and then his numbers reached sky high, until another idiot made a more idiotic comment.

Odd, I don't think Hillary Clinton has said anything of the sort and I'm not sure why you would refer to her with 'he.'

[viper37]

The country's economy run for the benefit of the oil industry.

I have to add to the list of good thing:
they started to tackle union corruption in this country, something the Libs&NPD had promised they would reverse.
I guess when you are the beneficiary, corruption is not important.

[Valmy]

I thought Jake was a small business owner? How would he benefit from Union corruption?

[Malthus]

Harper won his first minority government promising to clean up government.  And at first he was quite good at it.  But then things changed.  One good example of the change is the run ins he started having with the Parliamentary budget watchdog - an office Harper had promised and created after his first successful election.  While Viper is correct that the old Liberal practices of blatant patronage were not repeated, Conservative supporters were tried and convicted of a lot of shady activity and particularly surrounding elections and obtaining electoral support.  I don't see much of a meaningful distinction there and it certainly removed the ability of the Conservatives to continue to claim they were committed to good government.  The Liberals have spent years in the wilderness and will likely be slow to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Heh this is a dance that both parties do, and have done, repeatedly over the years! Each party gradually grows visibly corrupt in power, and the other promises to clean house, and does ... for a while. Then grows visibly corrupt in turn. Rince and repeat, with the other party.

In Canadian federal politics, this seems as inevitable as the tides, with nary a King Canute in sight.