[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

And instead we get the politics of deceit and denial?

I assume you are talking about the blatant lies being told by the Conservatives in Chinese newspaper ads?

[crazy canuck]

Man the Conservatives are out of control. This is Austrian FPO type crap.

Yep.  Its pretty nasty stuff. 

[Jacob]

Ah, it's ok to regulate fashion for some people, but not for Muslims.  So your argument is not one of racism or xenophobia, but you're only trying to take the moral high ground so you can justify your vote for a party whose corruption and mistreatment of the francophones is legendary.  I see.

No, that is not my argument, not even remotely. I have no idea how you could reach that conclusion.

And I didn't realize the NDP were legendary for corruption or the mistreatment of Francophones.

[Josephus]

Ezra Levant now runs this site:

http://www.therebel.media/

[crazy canuck]

Liberal momentum continues to grow.  They are now projected to take the most seats and may even form a majority government.  Quite a story coming from having only a 6% chance of getting the most seats when this election began.  It appears that the politics of fear and division will be roundly condemned at the ballot box. 

edit: forgot the link  http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/globe-election-forecast-2015/article25377958/

It would be ironic if Harper's niqab ploy was designed to hurt the NDP, and did so but such that it consolidated the ABC vote with the Liberals.

I think that is definitely part of what is happening.  The NDP were the most viable ABC party at the beginning of the election because they had so many seats in Quebec.  But when it became apparent they were losing that Quebec support the ABC crowd had to jump to the more viable alternative.

But we have to give Josephus his due on this one.  He has been predicting that the NDP would lose support as we got nearer the election for some time.   But I think he is pleasantly surprised that his further prediction that it would result in a Conservative government is will likely not become a reality.  In fairness to him, I don't think anyone could have predicted the Conservatives would have done something so stupid as to turn voters who are more to the right against them. 

Ezra Levant now runs this site:

http://www.therebel.media/

No chance I am touching that link.

[Barrister]

Man the Conservatives are out of control. This is Austrian FPO type crap.

The language is torqued up a bit, but the ad is completely correct.  The Liberals want marijuana legalized, they support safe injection sites, and opposed criminalizing prostitution and living on the avails of prostitution.

[Jacob]

The language is torqued up a bit, but the ad is completely correct.  The Liberals want marijuana legalized, they support safe injection sites, and opposed criminalizing prostitution and living on the avails of prostitution.

That does put you on fairly shaky ground when you complain about attacks on the Conservative record re: muzzling scientists, harming stats Canada, dismantling services for veterans, undermining health care, rejecting facts based decision-making in public policy, persecuting public servants, corruption, electoral fraud etc.

[crazy canuck]

Man the Conservatives are out of control. This is Austrian FPO type crap.

The language is torqued up a bit, but the ad is completely correct.  The Liberals want marijuana legalized, they support safe injection sites, and opposed criminalizing prostitution and living on the avails of prostitution.

You really have drunk the cool-aid.  The Liberals support the supreme court ruling regarding how safe injection sites should be evaluated.  Its the law of the country.  A guy like you should care about that right?  The Liberals voted against a bill criminalizing prostitution because they said it was unconstitutional.  The law was struck down by the Supreme Court as being unconstitutional.  The Liberals were right on the law.  Again, presumably a guy like you should care about the law.

The Liberals want to legalize marijuana but to suggest that they want to allow kids to have access is a complete distortion of the truth.  A guy like you should care about the truth right?

[Jacob]

... and I'm quite certain that the Liberals do not have a plan to put safe injection sites in Richmond, nor do they have a policy on opening brothels (besides, there are plenty of sex for money places all over Vancouver anyhow and that's with a CONSERVATIVE federal government).

[viper37]

1: It increases persecution of a group (witness the recent assaults on women wearing burqa/ niqab) and otherwise creates a climate where members of the group are told they're outsiders and don't belong.

"assault" is a charged word.  Wisely used by pressure group to describe a situation regularly happening, but the medias like to report this.  Of course, I understand, nobody wants a journalist reporting that nothing happens.

2: It doesn't do anything to actually encourage the people from changing the behaviour you're allegedly concerned about.

A law against pedophiles does not encourage pedophiles to change behavior.  It will however change the societal norms on how we perceive that.
Laws against racism did not change racists behavior.  Just because one day our parliament/congress decreteted that you could not discriminate against a black man for a job or an appartment means it does not happen.  I know first hand that many owners in Montreal feel justified in refusing their rent to a black woman.  Clearly, such laws were failures.  Should we repeal them?  Of course not.  Eventually, we went from maybe 90% racism in our society to much lower numbers.  Would you say that discrimination against black people is a widespread problem in Canada?  Back in the early 20th century, someone fighting against racism would have been alone in his corner.  Nowadays, he has support from lots of moderates who would have been too afraid to speak in the past, because due to laws and regulations, we pushed for changes.
And today, these same moderates pushing for changes are part of the muslim community.  They're telling you how life is becoming difficult for them because of the silly policies you push for, but you're deaf to them, because you feel the need to take some moral stance with a francophobic party.

Then if you're claiming that you're enacting the law to protect members of that group you're either an idiot (because your law is demonstrably counterproductive) or you're lying (because you're enacting the law for some other reason), possibly both.

Whose the idiot?  The guy listening to the wise advice of people linked to the Muslim Brotherhood and other unsavory groups or the guy listening to the muslim moderates speaking of the issue?  They are speaking, but you and the other morons who vote with their feelings instead of their brains don't feel like listening to an opposing point of view.

So, like BB, said, fuck you too

If you want to use comparisons, at least use some that have actual parallels to the argument you're making.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the obvious.  You're supporting a moronic proposal that gives even more leeway to extremists, the same people we are fighting abroad.

[Jacob]

You don't seem to be able to grasp the obvious.  You're supporting a moronic proposal that gives even more leeway to extremists, the same people we are fighting abroad.

I'm supporting the law of the land, as determined by the courts and in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms

The moronic proposals are coming from the Conservative camp at this point.

[Malthus]

Liberal momentum continues to grow.  They are now projected to take the most seats and may even form a majority government.  Quite a story coming from having only a 6% chance of getting the most seats when this election began.  It appears that the politics of fear and division will be roundly condemned at the ballot box. 

edit: forgot the link  http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/globe-election-forecast-2015/article25377958/

It would be ironic if Harper's niqab ploy was designed to hurt the NDP, and did so but such that it consolidated the ABC vote with the Liberals.

In my opinion, that's exactly what happened.

[Jacob]

Liberal momentum continues to grow.  They are now projected to take the most seats and may even form a majority government.  Quite a story coming from having only a 6% chance of getting the most seats when this election began.  It appears that the politics of fear and division will be roundly condemned at the ballot box. 

edit: forgot the link  http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/globe-election-forecast-2015/article25377958/

It would be ironic if Harper's niqab ploy was designed to hurt the NDP, and did so but such that it consolidated the ABC vote with the Liberals.

In my opinion, that's exactly what happened.

I guess that'll put electoral reform in doubt, if the Liberals think they can hang on to a majority via FPtP.

[viper37]

No, that is not my argument, not even remotely. I have no idea how you could reach that conclusion.

yes, it is precisely your argument. You consider a symbol of oppression as a simple fashion statement.  You believe it's not the job of the government to regulate such symbols.  Logically, you should not support any government ban on any kind of clothing, or lack of, to be consistent.  But of course you won't.

And I didn't realize the NDP were legendary for corruption or the mistreatment of Francophones.

The Liberals are.  The NDP will simply repeat the model, they have already started, with a Liberal at their head, former member of Alliance-Québec.  You're either voting for Trudeau or Mulcair.  One guy can barely speak French anymore and hates Quebec with a passion, despite living there.  The other has always resented French Québécois, and he became a Liberal (provincial) MP because the party needed someone to rally than angryphones of Montréal.  He change ideas depending on the language (a particular liberal trait) he speaks, he changes ideas depending on who pays him.  While I think it's an appropriate behavior for a practicing lawyer, I disagree that it's a welcome trait in a politician.

Which is one of the many reason I can not vote NDP.

[viper37]

You don't seem to be able to grasp the obvious.  You're supporting a moronic proposal that gives even more leeway to extremists, the same people we are fighting abroad.

I'm supporting the law of the land, as determined by the courts and in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms

The moronic proposals are coming from the Conservative camp at this point.

Not so long ago, abortion was illegal and we had death penalty.  Would you have fought to preserve the law of the land?