[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Capetan Mihali]

let us be the Delaware of Canada

Dear God, why?

[Grallon]

The others, I think they just don't realise what it is they're suggesting.  Language and culture are seen are mere tools by a majority of english canadians and americans, not as the basis of identity.  I suspect for many religion is the upmost important thing, while it's totally irrelevant for us, well for me, anyway.

So it is for me, and for most french Quebecers.  Unfortunately many of the new immigrants feel otherwise and are agitating for it to take a greater place in society, a place it *must not* have.

hmm. I haven't read english canada's papers since tuesday, but I suspect that is not the case and you are exagerating.

Read between the lines.  Or rather re-read your first paragraph.  If anglophones believe "language and culture are [...] mere tools" then it follows that they expect we shouldn't be insisting on their importance - and if we do, then we prove ourselves to be the racists/bigots/xenophobes/etc they believe us to be...

Talk about a 'damned if you do - damned if you don't' situation!

They would have us keep french merely as a token badge, some folkloric residue - so long as we don't insist on it and its use.  I mean just look at what happened to french elsewhere in Canada!

Anglos aren't dumb.  they'll never vote for a party to proposes transforming them into a minority without any 'grand brother' to protect them.  I guess they know our history too

Let us embrace them to our bosom then   How about lifting Bill 101's obligations in a new Montreal bilingual free zone?  In exchange for their agreeing on complete bilingualism on their part?

The Charter had a clear majority for most of its articles, but even then, it wasn't the absolute #1 priority for most Quebecers, something the PQ badly misread.

I heard somewhere that Marois was reluctant to go into election, that it was Lisée&co who wanted to rush in, even since last fall.

Indeed.  I read they came close to a deal with the CAQ about most of it.  Well those so called 'strategists' got bitch-slapped last Monday.  See, Marois wasn't the conniving bitch too many CAQists think she was.  I think she was ill served in her councillors, and vacillating herself.  But I never doubted her commitment to Quebec and our people.

Well, I've been saying that for years.  Let's clean our own mess, let's make the most of what we have, let's rebuild our pride, let us be the Delaware of Canada, then we'll split.  If it takes an hundred years, so shall it be.

Amen to that.  However at the rate immigration is going we don't have a century.  Ten, twenty years at best.



G.

[Grallon]

Dear God, why?

Mihali lad, Viper is merely obsessed with making money. 




G.

[crazy canuck]

Honestly though.  If you were an Anglo in Quebec faced with the likes of Grallon running things, wouldnt you do everything to avoid that potential fate?

Although Grallon recently admitted voting for the CAQ, he has always been a staunch supporter of the PQ.

That that is the point isnt it.  If the CAQ can attract voters like Grallon why should any Anglo have any confidence the CAQ wont turn out as opposed to Anglo rights as the PQ was?

[Grallon]

That that is the point isnt it.  If the CAQ can attract voters like Grallon why should any Anglo have any confidence the CAQ wont turn out as opposed to Anglo rights as the PQ was?

See Viper?  My point spelled out by CC in his doubtfull reply. 

"Oh you can go on speaking french - so long as it doesn't mean anything tangible and Quebec's Anglos can go on dismissing it, and it's importance, whenever it suits them" - and that is what he labels as a "right"...

Rights imply obligations CC!  I shouldn't have to explain this to a lawyer...

Oh but I was forgetting, we all live under the aegis of the Sacred Trudeau Charter of Rights, where nobody should have any obligations and everyone is 'emperor in its own domain'!  So long as it's happening in English of course...






G.

[crazy canuck]

That that is the point isnt it.  If the CAQ can attract voters like Grallon why should any Anglo have any confidence the CAQ wont turn out as opposed to Anglo rights as the PQ was?

See Viper?  My point spelled out by CC in his doubtfull reply. 

"Oh you can go on speaking french - so long as it doesn't mean anything tangible and Quebec's Anglos can go on dismissing it, and it's importance, whenever it suits them" - and that is what he labels as a "right"...

Rights imply obligations CC!  I shouldn't have to explain this to a lawyer...

Oh but I was forgetting, we all live under the aegis of the Sacred Trudeau Charter of Rights, where nobody should have any obligations and everyone is 'emperor in its own domain'!  So long as it's happening in English of course...






G.

Grallon, you are so extreme in your views I would never feel comfortable with any party you support.  You won't see that, but my post wasnt directed at you.

[Grey Fox]

I still hope that someday, that Quebec, Alberta & Ontario can get together and change the way the federal system.

[Grey Fox]

We've had this your most un PC belief thread a couple of weeks ago.

In Quebec, a Franco's most unPC belief is always not being a Separatist.

[viper37]

let us be the Delaware of Canada

Dear God, why?

we are the most regulated state of North America, no doubt.  It is a burden on many entrepreneurs, the small ones especially.  We need to streamline our government operations&procedures so that you can start a business without going through so much hassle that you basically need government funds&help to start it.

[viper37]

And centre-right types could have supported ADQ, but the overriding issue for anglos is sovereignty.  Even if the guy says 'Oh, we're not going to have a referendum anytime soon, but we'd like to see a separate Quebec one day', that's a non-starter.

Given that there's no risk for at least one mandate, the one during wich you vote for this party to promote/declare a referendum because they also have a lot of federalists who don't want to hear about it, I'd say it's a riskless proposal.

And as for Duplessis, religion was important to just about EVERYONE in the 40s and 50s.

I'll take your word for it. Good reason not to vote for him, I'll grand that.

There's also an element of strategy to it, to be sure.  The anglo bloc could be disgusted with Liberal scandals, but they know that if they don't turn out in red on election day, they're going to end up with a PQ government that is fairly hostile to them.  Sure, a good old Tory like Bouchard might tolerate them, but that's a big risk to take.

If they all vote for the 3rd party, the risks of getting a PQ government is much smaller.  They did vote for Alliance-Québec in the past, and they still got a PLQ government.

[viper37]

I'm reminded of when the Federal Liberals talk about how they really should start appealing to Albertans.

The problem is they view it as a problem of technique - how can they convince Albertans that the Liberal Party is right for them.  But really the problem is one of substance - Liberal policies don't do anything helpful to Alberta (and instead are often harmful).

but in the case of ADQ or now CAQ, their policies aren't unhelpful for anglo-quebecers.  Even for Montrealers, I'd say it's more neutral than anything else.

[viper37]

Unfortunately many of the new immigrants feel otherwise and are agitating for it to take a greater place in society, a place it *must not* have.

How many, exactly?

Read between the lines.  Or rather re-read your first paragraph.  If anglophones believe "language and culture are [...] mere tools" then it follows that they expect we shouldn't be insisting on their importance - and if we do, then we prove ourselves to be the racists/bigots/xenophobes/etc they believe us to be...

It's a matter of incomprehension from the majority to the minority.  Right now, being francophone in this country has been associated with poverty.  We got to change that.

Let us embrace them to our bosom then   How about lifting Bill 101's obligations in a new Montreal bilingual free zone?  In exchange for their agreeing on complete bilingualism on their part?

When you'll want a serious discussion, devoid of paranoia and supposed recent english invasion in East-side Montreal, we'll discuss

Indeed.  I read they came close to a deal with the CAQ about most of it.  Well those so called 'strategists' got bitch-slapped last Monday.  See, Marois wasn't the conniving bitch too many CAQists think she was.  I think she was ill served in her councillors, and vacillating herself.  But I never doubted her commitment to Quebec and our people.

Then her councillors were conniving bitches and sons of bitches.  And she was unable to properly select the people advising her.  Wich is one huge case of incompetence.

Amen to that.  However at the rate immigration is going we don't have a century.  Ten, twenty years at best.
G.

Remind me again who was in power right before the election and what they did about this?

[Barrister]

I'm reminded of when the Federal Liberals talk about how they really should start appealing to Albertans.

The problem is they view it as a problem of technique - how can they convince Albertans that the Liberal Party is right for them.  But really the problem is one of substance - Liberal policies don't do anything helpful to Alberta (and instead are often harmful).

but in the case of ADQ or now CAQ, their policies aren't unhelpful for anglo-quebecers.  Even for Montrealers, I'd say it's more neutral than anything else.

Vote for us!  Our policies aren't unhelpful!

Not very catchy.

If separatists wants anglo quebecers to vote for them, then they need to put forward policies that are actually helpful for anglo quebeckers.

Or not - write them off and get your majority some other way (which is pretty much what the Conservatives have done with Quebec).  But don't complain they won't vote for you if you aren't actually trying to appeal to them.

[viper37]

That that is the point isnt it.  If the CAQ can attract voters like Grallon why should any Anglo have any confidence the CAQ wont turn out as opposed to Anglo rights as the PQ was?

The Liberal party can attract mafia, criminal bikers and corrupt entrepreneurs.  How could we have any confidence that the PLQ won't turn out as opposed to our rights as the PQ was?

[crazy canuck]

That that is the point isnt it.  If the CAQ can attract voters like Grallon why should any Anglo have any confidence the CAQ wont turn out as opposed to Anglo rights as the PQ was?

The Liberal party can attract mafia, criminal bikers and corrupt entrepreneurs.  How could we have any confidence that the PLQ won't turn out as opposed to our rights as the PQ was?

You are talking about corruption.  That is a problem with every political party.  I am talking about anti-anglo sentiment.  And in Grallon's case that is putting it very very politely