[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Valmy]

One thing I do remember is that people made their own masks in order to make sure hospitals got enough. We did.

[Sheilbh]

I am kind of curious if I went back on Languish to this time if there was anybody saying "actually, experts are saying not to wear masks".

You'd definitely have me - I distinctly remember repeating the idea that they might actually increase risk because they'd give people a false sense of security which would mean they might be laxer on other things such as hand washing and it might lead to people touching their face more as they adjust it, play around with it etc.

And the advertising regulator prosecuted people for false advertising for selling masks saying they would help prevent covid because that went against official scientific guidance in the UK at the time.

Edit: Although I started wearing one once I saw other people do it (I am sheeple) sort of on the basis that it probably wouldn't do any harm - though I definitely didn't touch my face when I was wearing one and washed the outside of my groceries.

[Valmy]

I am kind of curious if I went back on Languish to this time if there was anybody saying "actually, experts are saying not to wear masks".

So I don't remember "masks might actually make it worse".  I do remember "masks won't help".

Like you I remember going to the grocery store very early on in the pandemic.  Long lines outside, everything marked to be 6' apart.  Within the store, again 6' apart, but only limited people inside.

And nobody wearing a mask.

I think masks only became popular once they started to be more available.  Same thing with hand sanitizer.

I think I held out for awhile once everything was shut down, or I went during very odd times, because the grocery store was almost eerily empty and quiet compared to normal. And of course, no toilet paper.

[Valmy]

You'd definitely have me - I distinctly remember repeating the idea that they might actually increase risk because they'd give people a false sense of security which would mean they might be laxer on other things such as hand washing and it might lead to people touching their face more as they adjust it, play around with it etc.

Ok I do remember that and thinking that was stupid. Like saying that one shouldn't wear your seatbelt because it might encourage you to drive more recklessly. 

So maybe this bad advice was around and I just ignored it because it seemed idiotic. That's probably what happened. At the beginning of the pandemic I called my friends in the medical field and planned how our family was going to respond and pretty much ignored everything else. Except the genius advice from Languish, of course.

[Barrister]

You'd definitely have me - I distinctly remember repeating the idea that they might actually increase risk because they'd give people a false sense of security which would mean they might be laxer on other things such as hand washing and it might lead to people touching their face more as they adjust it, play around with it etc.

OK - I'll give you the "false sense of security" argument from that era.

[crazy canuck]

And to Reiterate, the pandemic is not over. 

How will it stop being a pandemic for you?

According to the authors of this paper :

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1600-0498.12370

"Epidemics end once the diseases become accepted into people's daily lives and routines, becoming endemic—domesticated—and accepted."

We're pretty much there and have been for some time.

Why do you think this is personal to me?  Our public health officials say it is so.

Have we all bought into right wing misinformation campaigns to the extent that they are now "liars" who can be disregarded?

If you are reading BB's posts the answer is yes.  But as once again ask you all to get your information from somewhere other than social media.

[Barrister]

And to Reiterate, the pandemic is not over. 

How will it stop being a pandemic for you?

According to the authors of this paper :

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1600-0498.12370

"Epidemics end once the diseases become accepted into people's daily lives and routines, becoming endemic—domesticated—and accepted."

We're pretty much there and have been for some time.

Why do you think this is personal to me?  Our public health officials say it is so.

Have we all bought into right wing misinformation campaigns to the extent that they are now "liars" who can be disregarded?

If you are reading BB's posts the answer is yes.  But as once again ask you all to get your information from somewhere other than social media.

You're hilarious dude.

You should hear what the actual nutty right-wingers are saying - that Covid is a fake, it's actually the vaccines that are killing people, that the public health officials are actually profiting from the fake pandemic...

I think you'll find that "we got some things wrong in the early days (with the benefit of hindsight), but everyone was trying their best" to be a pretty middle-of-the-road position to take.

But that would mean you'd have to engage with my posts (where I've said exactly that) in good faith.

[Jacob]

Yeah this line in particular doesn't feel like it'll end well. Financialisation of land for farming is something I feel could go wrong in a lot of ways:

"More urban people are becoming interested in farmland as an asset class, as a place to park their money," said André Magnan, a University of Regina sociology professor who studies the growing influence of financial and corporate actors in agriculture and how it reshapes food and farming.

Yes indeed. I'm no expert, but my instinct is that this might not go to good places.

[Jacob]

Why do you think this is personal to me?  Our public health officials say it is so.

Got a link?

[Valmy]

Yeah this line in particular doesn't feel like it'll end well. Financialisation of land for farming is something I feel could go wrong in a lot of ways:

"More urban people are becoming interested in farmland as an asset class, as a place to park their money," said André Magnan, a University of Regina sociology professor who studies the growing influence of financial and corporate actors in agriculture and how it reshapes food and farming.

Yes indeed. I'm no expert, but my instinct is that this might not go to good places.

I own farmland 

Ok not directly. It was my grandfather's (a farmer) and now it is my mother's. But she has dementia so I am managing it.

I have to say I don't see how this is a good investment. The rents you get on farmland are pretty low, I mean like a few hundred dollars a month. Granted the farmer does all the upkeep and other work for you so it is a pretty good deal, but damn. One would have to own a shitload of farmland to make much money being a farm slumlord.

[Barrister]

Anyone want to comment on these NSICOP revelations?

Apparently - several MPs are linked to foreign intelligence services (mainly India and China) including working with foreign intelligence officers.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nsicop-intelligence-1.7225237

It's separately reported that India interfered with the most recent Conservative Party leadership campaign.

No names are being released.  All government will say is it is up to the RCMP to investigate.

I don't know that's a very satisfying answer.  It's not necessarily a crime to co-operate with foreign intelligence services, but surely the public should know.  And I'll say that includes if Conservative MPs are named.

[crazy canuck]

Why do you think this is personal to me?  Our public health officials say it is so.

Got a link?

More importantly, actual knowledge


But I understand you and most others here live in a world where the only valid knowledge is what is posted online

I suggest a google search

[Jacob]

So my expectation is that the situation is mostly something like this:

• An important facet of retail politics is getting various community groups in your riding to line up for you: to provide volunteers, to put on events, to help fundraising.
• If your riding includes reasonably sized minority groups they will have a significant number of community groups around. These business and social networks, cultural organization, and so on are typically worthwhile for politicians to interact with (and generally, IMO, an important component of integration and democracy).
• At the same time, those groups also have connections back to "the old country." Often they have connections with embassies and consulates, via honorary consuls and others.
• Some countries (I know China and Russia for sure, probably India and likely several others) have groups (government, quasi-government, or theoretically non-government) dedicated to influence their diasporas, and thereby the political process.
• However, that influence is often very back-room deal, word of mouth, obscure funding-type. Sometimes it involves legitimate business and cultural exchanges, sometimes that's merely a cover.

I think the challenge is that the specific acts of influence are often hard to document until after the fact, and that some of the influence actions overlap with benign parts of our democratic process. I think it's going to be challenging to sort out black-on-white (except as political talking points when convenient), and a challenge to root out. But it's definitely worth being on top of as much as possible.

[Jacob]

But I understand you and most others here live in a world where the only valid knowledge is what is posted online

You seem extra pissy recently. I hope everything is alright

[Josquius]

One of the things I was kind of hopeful about during the pandemic was that perhaps the West would adopt the courtesy of wearing masks when you are sick like I see people in Japan doing.

LOL no. We are such selfish assholes.

It's a bit much to expect a leap from wearing a mask being a sign of a freaky weirdo to Japanese style behaviour.
I am seeing the occasional mask out and about these days though. Wouldn't have pre covid.

 I expect the anti covid loons and the liklihood of low key bullying related to that kind of shit works against it taking off more.

Also, I do think we have progressed a bit in the domain of work from home if you're feeling a bit sick whilst in Japan it was come into the office even if you're dying. And environments where that isn't an option are sadly more likely to have the anti mask nonsense.
I wonder whether any bosses are actively banning it as detracting form uniform?