[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Zoupa]

There is very much a crisis. White supremacists with support of the CPC have assembled in different part of the country with the stated aim of overthrowing the government.

I have yet to see someone storming the House of Commons.  Or indicating they would, by their gestures.
there were a lot of people assembled and disturbing traffic and normal businesses, as is the case with every protests.
This one was far less violent than the usual leftist protest.
People were sent away once the Feds gave the order for them to go.
Now, the Libs keep instrumentalizing the manufactured crisis to vote themselves emergency powers in time of peace.
And ya'all applauding Palpatine Trudeau.

It's ok.  If the Conservatives ever regain power and use such measures to disband opposition from the left, I'll cheer from the sideline at this moment.
In the meantime, I'd just like to remind you that prorogating the Parliament was seen as the absolute sign of tyranny from the Cons.  Now the Libs are giving themselves the right to do anything they want, with cheering support from the NPD cowards and you are applauding.

Jesus Christ man, you're not being rational at all. What's with the hyperbole.

As stated by hundreds of folks I saw being interviewed was to overthrow the legally elected government of the country. That's treason isn't it?

This protest was incredibly violent to the people of Ottawa. And the people did not just leave as you write. They had to be forced out.

Wake me when Trudeau actually does something dictatorial. Until then, lay off the Kool aid.

[crazy canuck]

The conservatives never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Falling over themselves to support the truckers they have failed to identify the real problem with invoking emergency powers. That legislation is intended for extreme circumstances when the normal laws of the land are not enough to deal with the problem. Yes the protests were violent. Yes there were hundreds of arrests. Yes the intent of the protesters was to overthrow the government. But all of that could've been dealt with under the laws of the land. All of those arrests could have been made by enforcing trespass and local bylaws.  All of those trucks could have been impounded and sold under those same laws. All of those bank accounts could have been frozen and the assets seized as being proceeds of crime.

There are many levels of tragedy to what has occurred. The main one is that the conservative party has gone full GOP. But almost equally disturbing is the failure of our liberal democratic institutions to deal with what really was a routine small protest without invoking draconian power. This is a dangerous time in Canada.

[Sheilbh]

There are many levels of tragedy to what has occurred. The main one is that the conservative party has gone full GOP. But almost equally disturbing is the failure of our liberal democratic institutions to deal with what really was a routine small protest without invoking draconian power. This is a dangerous time in Canada.

Yeah - and to be clear I don't think having a protest or arguing for the overthrow of the government is or should be illegal even if bad people do it. Trying to overthrow the government through non-constitutional/democratic means (which absolutely include protests, even annoying ones) is what should be illegal.

It's a pretty dangerous precedent that that's a nation-threatening national emergency or treason - and I dread to think when a right-wing government will invoke the same argument.

[viper37]

As stated by hundreds of folks I saw being interviewed was to overthrow the legally elected government of the country. That's treason isn't it?

that's morons talking, like for every protest.  Like those calling for the murder of bankers, of the students wanting to overthrow the unfair system and all their defenders.

This protest was incredibly violent to the people of Ottawa. And the people did not just leave as you write. They had to be forced out.

Which the police should have done on day 2 of the protest.  That they did not act is on the Feds hands, they didn't want to do anything.

The protest was disturbing the peace.  But these protesters weren't attacking bystanders or trashing everything downtown Ottawa. 

Now, there is no one protesting.  WHy the emergency measure?

Wake me when Trudeau actually does something dictatorial. Until then, lay off the Kool aid.

He just did with this act.  It transformed a minority government into a majority one overnight, without election, for the next forseeable years.

[viper37]

The conservatives never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Falling over themselves to support the truckers they have failed to identify the real problem with invoking emergency powers.

Not all of them supported the protesters, and many of them have called on the protesters to leave.  The former leader said his door was always open for people wanting to discuss issues, before the convoy arrived.

That legislation is intended for extreme circumstances when the normal laws of the land are not enough to deal with the problem.

Yes the protests were violent.

No, they weren't, not by any protest's standards at least.

Yes there were hundreds of arrests.

As it should be when people act like morons.

Yes the intent of the protesters was to overthrow the government.

They never took any hostile actions toward the Parliament. They waved Canadian flags, and they protested sanitary measures which they thought was unfairly affecting their lives.
If we treat every moron of the country like hardened revolutionaries guilty of sedition, we will have a serious sedition problem in this country.  Might as well start building some more prisons, we'll need it.

But all of that could've been dealt with under the laws of the land. All of those arrests could have been made by enforcing trespass and local bylaws. 

But the Libs did not want that.

[viper37]

and I dread to think when a right-wing government will invoke the same argument.

Exactly.
The left was all up in arms about dictatorship for much, much, much less.
These double standards really annoy me.

[crazy canuck]

There are many levels of tragedy to what has occurred. The main one is that the conservative party has gone full GOP. But almost equally disturbing is the failure of our liberal democratic institutions to deal with what really was a routine small protest without invoking draconian power. This is a dangerous time in Canada.

Yeah - and to be clear I don't think having a protest or arguing for the overthrow of the government is or should be illegal even if bad people do it. Trying to overthrow the government through non-constitutional/democratic means (which absolutely include protests, even annoying ones) is what should be illegal.

It's a pretty dangerous precedent that that's a nation-threatening national emergency or treason - and I dread to think when a right-wing government will invoke the same argument.

I agree entirely.  This is a Rubicon moment in Canadian politics. 

Extraordinary powers have been invoked by the government. And many Canadians, including those who fancy themselves defenders of liberal democratic principles are cheering them on.  Recent polls show that the majority of Canadians, by a long margin, support the decision.  We have definitely entered the ends justify the means territory. How easy will it now be for a conservative government to invoke those same powers to end a difficult strike or to crack down on environmental or indigenous protesters. 

[crazy canuck]

Viper, the Conservative leadership did not call on the protesters to leave until after all the violence, illegal activity and intimidation of residents of Ottawa had already occurred and it was clear the police were finally going to move in.  Until then the bright lights of the party were cheering them on.

[viper37]

Viper, the Conservative leadership did not call on the protesters to leave until after all the violence, illegal activity and intimidation of residents of Ottawa had already occurred and it was clear the police were finally going to move in.  Until then the bright lights of the party were cheering them on.

O'Toole told them not to come, before he agreed to meet them and was then forced out of the party.  From the Thursday where he told them they where not welcome to blockade the city, the party has been leaderless, and as soon as they had a new interim leader, she asked them to leave.

Now, about those violent protests:
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/coastal-gaslink-site-attacked-overnight-with-millions-in-damage-to-equipment

This is a violent protest.  This has left people scared and shaken.

No emergency powers for this.

[Grey Fox]

No emergency powers for this.

Why do you think that is?

[Josquius]

2. We are also seeing a very restrained, professional response by the police. I hope this is the benchmark for how protests are handled moving forward, whatever the political persuasion of protestors.

Because Canada?
Or because its a bunch of right wing white guys protesting?

[Grey Fox]

2. We are also seeing a very restrained, professional response by the police. I hope this is the benchmark for how protests are handled moving forward, whatever the political persuasion of protestors.

Because Canada?
Or because its a bunch of right wing white guys protesting?

2nd part.

Look at all the examples Viper posted from the 2012 Maple Spring in Quebec. The police did not show any restraint then.

[Jacob]

Or because its a bunch of right wing white guys protesting?

I'm not 100% certain, but this is a

1. Inaction due to incompetence (not a benchmark to follow)

2. Inaction due to fear of armed extremists amid the protestors, with a potential for really ugly escalation (reasonble) + Inaction due to collaborators feeding operational information to protestors (terrible, obviously)

3. Restrained action due to massive availability of resources + awareness that the nation's eyes were on them, and massive international attention as well (which withered the moment it didn't turn into a bloody riot) (reasonable, but hopefully some of these principles can be applied across the board rather than reserved for high profile situations)

"A bunch of right wing white guys" is an over simplification IMO but there is probably some element there (for one there were plenty of women until the last day or so, and a bunch of people brought their kids too)

[Jacob]

Just in case there was any doubt about what the convoy protest was about:

South Asian truckers say protest convoys didn't resonate with them, caused financial losses

South Asian Canadians make up 16 per cent of truckers and come from a community with a high vaccination rate

Bearing a load of produce bound for Sobeys, Nihal Singh pulled up to a border checkpoint in northern Montana late last month, only to find the path blocked by big-riggers on the other side.

Semi-trucks and protesters barred the way in Coutts, Alta., as they demonstrated against vaccine mandates, holding up Singh for nearly two days — one of hundreds of drivers stopped by the blockade. After more than 24 hours, he and a group of other South Asian Canadian truckers approached authorities to find out when they could pass.

"That's when another guy, he came out of his truck and he was, like, being racist. He was saying, 'Go back to your truck, go back to India,"' recalled Singh, a 28-year-old driver from Edmonton.

Disturbed, he and his co-driver set out for another crossing — an option unavailable to some, since oversize loads can only move through certain checkpoints — on a route that added more than 500 kilometres to their trip. The delay meant they missed their next load, costing them a week of work — nearly $6,000 between the two of them.

Singh is now mulling an exit from the long-haul industry.

Frustration and disgust at the recent blockades and encampment in Ottawa may be the final straw atop concerns ranging from wages and road safety to social isolation and exhausting working conditions.

"I've been having really bad experiences in the last few months," he said.

If Singh and others are driven away, they'll be leaving a field already desperately short of labour.

The trucker job vacancy rate hit a historic high of nearly 23,000 in the third quarter of 2021, according to figures from Statistics Canada. Young drivers, women and retirement-age workers have left the sector in droves over the past two years, with some 55,000 job vacancies projected for 2023, says Trucking HR Canada.

Demand for drivers soared during the COVID-19 pandemic as a spike in online shopping led to a corresponding climb in deliveries. Meanwhile, the number of workers entering the industry has been dropping for years due to a confluence of factors, including stagnant wages, shifting labour patterns and prohibitive insurance policies that make it difficult for new drivers to earn a living.

South Asian Canadians make up a major axle in the sector, comprising 16 per cent of truckers in 2021 compared with just two per cent 25 years earlier, according to Statistics Canada data. In cities such as Toronto and Vancouver, they account for more than half of drivers.

Values of convoy don't resonate with community

They also belong to a community with a high vaccination rate, in contrast to the anger over vaccine mandates for border crossing expressed by a small slice of the industry.

Statistics Canada noted last year that a larger proportion of South Asian Canadians reported a willingness to receive the vaccine than the wider population. Brampton, Ont., which has a high concentration of residents with recent roots in India and Pakistan, boasts a vaccination rate of 92.5 per cent among people five and older.

The self-described freedom convoy was fuelled from the start by participants with a grab bag of grievances — many unconnected to pandemic measures for truck drivers. Its co-opting by actors ranging from Confederate-flag wavers to Donald Trump Jr. has led some to reconsider their place in the field.

Alberta-based trucker Lovepreet Singh, who missed a week of work due to the Coutts blockade, says the anti-vaccine mandate movement carries no resonance for him and that concerns such as labour conditions and wage theft are much more central but attract little attention.

"They don't even want to listen our opinion.... 'Go back to your country,' and stuff like that," Lovepreet recalled of comments he faced near Coutts and online.

Kulpreet Singh, founder of the South Asian Mental Health Alliance, launched a GoFundMe campaign for truckers to help a community he says feels disempowered by alt-right voices linked to the demonstrations.

"Definitely when you don't see yourself represented in a movement that is purporting to speak for you, that can be discouraging and disempowering. So whereas there have been some members of the South Asian community that have aligned with the conflict, they're very few and far between," Kulpreet said.

Monty Chrysler, who retired last year as head of training at Ontario-based International Truckload Services, said the association of even a few hundred truckers with the blockades could have "a big effect" on recruitment.

In the wake of swastikas and other hateful symbols brandished on the streets of Ottawa — suddenly calm after a police crackdown over the weekend — others may feel emboldened to verbally abuse South Asian Canadians behind the wheel.

"My only worry is that there may be hate or discrimination in the coming days," said Gagan Singh of B.C.'s United Truckers Association.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/south-asian-truckers-convoy-1.6359372

[crazy canuck]

Viper I don't know if you are trolling or you really don't know what the conservatives were doing.  From Candice Bergen's own parliamentary page.

https://candicebergen.ca/bergen-supports-canadian-truckers/