[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

I don't agree that LCN is left at all. Quebecor is an old fashion neo liberal company.

Québécor has always been populist.  They swing left & right, depending on where it will make them more money.  Unlike La Presse, who's always been a stalwart defender of Federalism and The Liberal Party, except for one Federal election in the last 50 years.
Le Journal de Montréal had almost exclusively fringe left-type columinists.  Then RadioX happened, and they started hiring some fringe right-wing people like Nathalie Elgrably or Richard Martineau to balance things a little.  Then they pushed things more to the right.  Now they're back to the left, pro-PQ/QS columnist types.

They simply go where the wind bring s them.

[viper37]

The whole politics around police actions in protests has been very odd, with each political extreme switching roles when it comes to "their" protests ... the right cheers when the cops crack down on the left, and vice versa. Also, each side accuses the cops and politicians of favouritism, that they are harsher on "their" side.

The reality appears to be that the Canadian way, at least, is usually to allow protests to go on for a while, and only to crack down when the protestors refuse to go away in response to injunctions. Though the cops and politicians often screw things up.

A notable example of the cops screwing up was the protest over the G20, where the cops cracked down immediately and hard - so much so they got sued. In Ottawa, the cops erred in the opposite direction, and waited too long; and arguably, the politicians screwed up, by imposing the Act when it strictly speaking wasn't necessary. So each side has some ammo for arguing they are being treated differently. 

My perspective: cops are definitely necessary, to avoid protestors blockading our lives. People have a right to protest, regardless of how dumb or offensive their message is, but not an absolute right; that would interfere too much with other people's rights. Ideally, cops and politicians should not care what the message is when responding to a protest, only with how it is expressed (peaceably, or with rioting?). When a protest has gone on too long or becomes too riotous or disruptive, legal process should be used to declare it at an end, and if people refuse, police intervention is necessary. Because otherwise, political minorities with a grievance can hold the rest of us hostage.

i agree with that.  Except they where too hard on the G20 things.  This suit is what brought us events like Ottawa, where police are hesitant to dismantle protests, before they become extremely annoying.
The moment protesters announce their intentions is they moment the police should act, imho.  Like if I publish on social media "I'm going to hang Justin Trudeau", the police will come home and have a chat with me.  As it should be.  Even if had no intention of hanging him, or anyone, I'm still liable for threats, and the police has a duty to prevent the crime from being committed.

[viper37]

If what he is taking in makes them look that way, it says a lot of how far right wing his trusted sources of information are.

I read mostly the Washington Post and listen to RDI.

Imho, when a newspaper hires former anti-government union leaders, alter globalization types, former protesters, former FLQ members, it's hard to classify them as "neo right wing something something".
Just because one dude is known for his anti-clerical views in the paper does not make it far right.

[viper37]

I found this gem:

Dwayne Lich questions legality of Emergencies Act

He also questioned whether the Emergencies Act — which was debated Saturday in the House of Commons — was implemented legally, at times confusing the numbered amendments found in the U.S. Constitution with Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

"Honestly? I thought it was a peaceful protest and based on my first amendment, I thought that was part of our rights," he told the court.

"What do you mean, first amendment? What's that?" Judge Julie Bourgeois asked him.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/tamara-lich-bail-hearing-february-19-1.6358307

[Grey Fox]

Our 1st amendment, if it still counts, admits Manitoba into the confederation.

[Jacob]

I was pretty impressed with the CBC's coverage of the events in Ottawa. It also illustrated the abuse journalists and their crews are subjected to as they go about their jobs.

The local convoy in Vancouver has been rallying under a "the media is the virus" message from pretty much day 1. And they've been quite aggressive against journalists.

I think in this age there's a reflexive dismissal and devaluation of journalism, and I think it's quite corrosive to one of the fundamental of democracy. There are a whole lot of very hard working journalists who deserve our support.

[Jacob]

Another dimension to this that's new to me...

Apparently during the occupation / protest there were a whole bunch of folks on the ground live streaming on Twitch. And man of those people - by their own account and from the reports of people watching those streams - made a LOT of money. Basically people sympathetic to the occupation / protest would throw in tips in all kinds of amounts.

I suppose it's a way for someone to somehow show sympathy - you give $50 to a Twitch streamer "in support" - and you feel like you're contributing and supporting "the cause"... even though it's basically a paycheque for the streamer.

I don't know if this is the first time this phenomenon has really been on display, but it's the first time I've become aware of it. I expect this will be a regular feature of alt-right - and possibly other - political events in the future.

There is, I think, a number of interesting implications from about the general monetization of political protest. What does that mean about the incentives for organizing and participating? I think that ship is already well underway - there seems to be a fair amount of grift around all kinds of politics - selling NFTs and crypto currencies, meal supplements, overpriced gold, and of course high priced political tat.

I don't have anything super intelligent to say about it at this point, but it's a new dimension to our discourse I think - and I expect we'll see more of it moving forward.

[Josephus]

I was pretty impressed with the CBC's coverage of the events in Ottawa. It also illustrated the abuse journalists and their crews are subjected to as they go about their jobs.

The local convoy in Vancouver has been rallying under a "the media is the virus" message from pretty much day 1. And they've been quite aggressive against journalists.

I think in this age there's a reflexive dismissal and devaluation of journalism, and I think it's quite corrosive to one of the fundamental of democracy. There are a whole lot of very hard working journalists who deserve our support.

That's annoying . It should be "the media ARE the virus"....sigh....English is going downhill.

[Sheilbh]

I don't know if this is the first time this phenomenon has really been on display, but it's the first time I've become aware of it. I expect this will be a regular feature of alt-right - and possibly other - political events in the future.

There is, I think, a number of interesting implications from about the general monetization of political protest. What does that mean about the incentives for organizing and participating? I think that ship is already well underway - there seems to be a fair amount of grift around all kinds of politics - selling NFTs and crypto currencies, meal supplements, overpriced gold, and of course high priced political tat.

I don't have anything super intelligent to say about it at this point, but it's a new dimension to our discourse I think - and I expect we'll see more of it moving forward.

Yeah - that is really interesting.

I think a lot about Occupy and, here UK Uncut, and wonder how it would go now with crowdfunding platforms, more social media and things like that. Because I could easily see "lefty, activist lawyers" setting up crowdfunding to do lots of cases - or a Twitch stream from an Occupy site.

It is, in its way, the incredible democratising power of the internet - think back to raising funds to support strikers and it used to be very difficult to do because it was all manual. There is now a relatively easy route for showing solidarity for those who are not physically able to join. There is always a risk of an awful lot of grifters in this area - from the Michael Avenatti thing to now NFTs and crypto etc - but there is also a lot of potential.

[viper37]

Our 1st amendment, if it still counts, admits Manitoba into the confederation.

I think the 1982 Constitution supercedes the BNAA, not just complement it.
A lawyer would know.  If only we had some around here...

[viper37]

The NDP should really announce their merger with the Libs.  They'll always with them on crucial issues, anyway.

Seems we have a first in Canada, the two leftmost party on the checkboard have now given the government emergency powers for a non existent crisis.
A very dangerous precedent.  We'll hear to usual lament from the left when this law is used preventively against them in the future, if a future for the right there is.

And all it took, was one dude with a Confederate flag to scare the NPD into aligning itself with the anti-democratic forces of the Libs.  Way to go Jagmeet!

[Grey Fox]

There is very much a crisis. White supremacists with support of the CPC have assembled in different part of the country with the stated aim of overthrowing the government.

[viper37]

There is very much a crisis. White supremacists with support of the CPC have assembled in different part of the country with the stated aim of overthrowing the government.

I have yet to see someone storming the House of Commons.  Or indicating they would, by their gestures.
there were a lot of people assembled and disturbing traffic and normal businesses, as is the case with every protests.
This one was far less violent than the usual leftist protest.
People were sent away once the Feds gave the order for them to go.
Now, the Libs keep instrumentalizing the manufactured crisis to vote themselves emergency powers in time of peace.
And ya'all applauding Palpatine Trudeau.

It's ok.  If the Conservatives ever regain power and use such measures to disband opposition from the left, I'll cheer from the sideline at this moment.
In the meantime, I'd just like to remind you that prorogating the Parliament was seen as the absolute sign of tyranny from the Cons.  Now the Libs are giving themselves the right to do anything they want, with cheering support from the NPD cowards and you are applauding.

[Grey Fox]

They have yet to show themselves to be competent at it.

You have yet to see it because you keep ignoring where they are saying it. Look up Patrick King and his aim.

Once again, left protests are violent because the police make it violent.

[Jacob]

There is very much a crisis. White supremacists with support of the CPC have assembled in different part of the country with the stated aim of overthrowing the government.

Agreed. Grey Fox, you consistently have reasonable takes on things, and I appreciate it