[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Sheilbh]

The donation itself seems like pretty thin gruel to kick someone out of caucus - it's not like the donation came with little swastikas drawn on it.  But there's a history here and O'Toole wants to make quite clear that there's to be no flirting with white supremacist types.  But this means there has to be a caucus vote, and a loss (or a narrow win for O'Toole) would be harmful to him.

Makes sense. Nothing like a bit of blood on the carpet to show you're serious/draw a clear line - unless there are many other MPs who he later discovers have taken these types of donations, because you'd hope the press would be ratting through every Tory MPs donations.

It feels like a party wouldn't want to hurt their new leader at the first chance though, right?

[crazy canuck]

I think that is the problem Sheilbh, this sort of problem is rampant in the Conservative party and the Reform party before it.  While die hard right wingers are critical because it seems, "thin gruel" and something "dug up" by the left wing.  A lot of us are wondering why not take this step much earlier when Sloan was spouting white supremacist nonsense himself.

He is the same guy who wondered whether Canada's Chief Medical Officer could be trusted because of her Asian heritage.

[Jacob]

I certainly think drawing a firm line against explicit white supremacy is a good move for the Conservative party.

[Barrister]

I certainly think drawing a firm line against explicit white supremacy is a good move for the Conservative party.

I'm not going to shed any tears for Derek Sloan and think overall the move is a good one for the party.

But I want to put on the record that taking a $131 donation from a white supremacist (which was under a different formulation of his name and wouldn't have been immediately obvious) and returning it upon being made aware of the situation is not "explicit white supremacy".

[Jacob]

I'm not going to shed any tears for Derek Sloan and think overall the move is a good one for the party.

But I want to put on the record that taking a $131 donation from a white supremacist (which was under a different formulation of his name and wouldn't have been immediately obvious) and returning it upon being made aware of the situation is not "explicit white supremacy".

Yeah, I guess if he didn't know and then returned it seems a little unfair in isolation. Seems like O'Toole is using it as a political knife to send some signals both to his own hinterland and the electorate.

[viper37]

Are ski resorts open? They're closed in Ontario. If they're open are they allowing 10 people?

they are open here*, but no indoor gatherings, only skiing outside, afaik.

*My cousin came to see her dad in Quebec city and went skiing with the kids, so unless she's into offtrail skiing now, with a 4 and 6 year old kid trailing, they are, indeed, open

[viper37]

I think that is the problem Sheilbh, this sort of problem is rampant in the Conservative party and the Reform party before it.  While die hard right wingers are critical because it seems, "thin gruel" and something "dug up" by the left wing.  A lot of us are wondering why not take this step much earlier when Sloan was spouting white supremacist nonsense himself.

He is the same guy who wondered whether Canada's Chief Medical Officer could be trusted because of her Asian heritage.

there must be a gradation in sanctions.  Wondering if the CMO should be trusted was a first offense, at least under O'Toole.  Privately, there must have been other things going on.  I'm with BB here, it's a pretty minor offense, receiving a donation, not sollicitating one, and returning it immediatly when it is known, there's no big deal.  It's like being caught stealing a gum pack at a corner store after you've been previously arrested for armed robbery. 

You might go back to jail, the left would certainly tear their shirts over this poor innocent men convicted to 15 years for a simple pack of gum, but it's justice.

[crazy canuck]

I think that is the problem Sheilbh, this sort of problem is rampant in the Conservative party and the Reform party before it.  While die hard right wingers are critical because it seems, "thin gruel" and something "dug up" by the left wing.  A lot of us are wondering why not take this step much earlier when Sloan was spouting white supremacist nonsense himself.

He is the same guy who wondered whether Canada's Chief Medical Officer could be trusted because of her Asian heritage.

there must be a gradation in sanctions.  Wondering if the CMO should be trusted was a first offense, at least under O'Toole.  Privately, there must have been other things going on.  I'm with BB here, it's a pretty minor offense, receiving a donation, not sollicitating one, and returning it immediatly when it is known, there's no big deal.  It's like being caught stealing a gum pack at a corner store after you've been previously arrested for armed robbery. 

You might go back to jail, the left would certainly tear their shirts over this poor innocent men convicted to 15 years for a simple pack of gum, but it's justice.

I think the point is Sloan has said a lot of things in the past that should have had him removed from the party.  I don't yet know if this is window dressing by sending an message with an easy target or whether O'Toole really means to clean house.  I hope it is the former but I it could just be a cynical move to deflect the Trumpist comparisons with those still there.

[Zoupa]

The Conservatives will never clean house, those are dependable voters for them. This is just theatre.

[Josephus]

Sloan is an idiot and should have been removed a long time ago.

However on the issue of the donation, I'm with BB, I think. Does every politician have to carefully vet every minute donation? This was just a $100 or so. I'm sure there are procedures in place for big donations, but to audit every $5 bill that comes your way might be asking too much.

I dunno.

[crazy canuck]

Sloan is an idiot and should have been removed a long time ago.

However on the issue of the donation, I'm with BB, I think. Does every politician have to carefully vet every minute donation? This was just a $100 or so. I'm sure there are procedures in place for big donations, but to audit every $5 bill that comes your way might be asking too much.

I dunno.

Yes, and the fact that Sloan was removed over this and not all the abhorrent things he has done speaks volumes about the Conservatives.

Coyne's piece in the Globe today reflects my view

Not that [Sloan] deserves any better. There are worse things than hypocrisy, and one of them is the party's willingness to tolerate Mr. Sloan's presence in caucus as long as it has. If Mr. Sloan is being scapegoated in the present case, he had already earned his ticket out of caucus several times over: for suggesting homosexuality was a choice, for insinuating that Canada's Chief Public Health Officer, Theresa Tam, was in the pay of the Chinese government, for other public statements that were at best reckless and at worst outright bigoted.

And yet, this entails a larger hypocrisy. For as odious as Mr. Sloan's views are, he is hardly alone in holding them, in caucus or among the membership. Indeed, the evidence shows extreme views are widespread among the party's supporters, even beyond the 15 per cent who voted for Mr. Sloan on the first ballot in the recent leadership campaign. Not only has the party failed to discourage these over many years – it has actively catered to them.

As party leader, Erin O'Toole can hardly disclaim his own responsibility for this. It was Mr. O'Toole who campaigned for leader on a pledge to "Take Back Canada." It was Mr. O'Toole who later adopted the Trumpesque slogan "Canada First," railing against the "elites" who had supposedly "betrayed" the country. It is Mr. O'Toole who has lately elected to make an issue out of, of all things, vaccinating prison inmates against the coronavirus. Each alone might not be evidence enough to convict, but taken together, they leave little room for doubt about who and what he was pandering to. If the Liberals are too quick to paint the entire party with the same brush, well, the Conservatives handed them the paint.

For those of you with a subscription here is a link to the full piece

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-conservatives-have-a-hypocrisy-problem-that-goes-beyond-derek/

The Conservatives will never clean house, those are dependable voters for them. This is just theatre.

You will likely be proven correct.

[Malthus]

O'Toole is definitely on the horns of a dilemma, politically.

He simply can't win in Canada if he's associated with Trumpite lunacy. Yet his party is the natural place to find such lunatics (unless they go with a splinter group option). They are apt to be a committed part of his base. In the short term, this problem may be insoluble; his long term plan appears to have been to cater to the lunatics to win the leadership, then disavow them as leader - but this may not work.

Normally, the opposition could make hay with the government screwing up a pandemic response (assuming this happens and is seen to happen). Yet, a screw up is likely to be the result of too little social intervention, not too much. So those pissed off by a government screw-up are more likely to turn their votes to the NDP than to the conservatives.

O'Toole's advantage will come when the pandemic is over and the Libs are faced with the task of figuring out how to pay the bills for the damage it has caused. That is long in the future though.

[crazy canuck]

I think that is an accurate summary.

But I would add that by the time we get through COVID, the Cons are going to have a very hard time convincing anyone other than their base that small government is the best government.

[Grey Fox]

Today comes to light the biggest mistake of the Trudeau government. Negotiating a new NAFTA with a Trump administration instead of doing the right thing & waiting it out.

[Valmy]

his long term plan appears to have been to cater to the lunatics to win the leadership, then disavow them as leader - but this may not work.

Ah yes. The Mitt Romney plan.