[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

Hey Beeb, how serious are these guys: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-derek-fildebrandt-freedom-conservative-party-alberta-1.4752653

Here's Jason Kenney's response via social media:

Apologies for the longer post, but for those wondering, my response to the latest from Derek Fildebrandt:
One year ago 95% of PCs and Wildrosers voted to create a united, big tent conservative party. Our party has only grown since then, now with 120,000 members. Our fundraising has increased by 100%, and our polling numbers are the highest of any party in Canada.
We just held the largest convention in Alberta history, with 2,600 delegates, and the largest provincial nomination contest in Alberta history, with more than 3,000 members voting. Thousands of members are participating in hotly contested, fair and open nomination contests every week. We have won three by-elections with an average of 73% of the popular vote.
We are not going to be distracted from our focus on defeating the NDP by a political vehicle designed to gratify a discredited MLA's ego.
Derek Fildebrandt was caught cheating on his expenses, renting out a taxpayer-funded apartment, and was found guilty by courts of law of a hit and run, and poaching. He was barred from running for the UCP because of this pattern of poor judgement and unethical conduct, and because he lied to the UCP leadership about outstanding legal charges. Most recently, he attacked the UCP for barring a prospective candidate for having said that an entire faith community is an 'evil cult' that should have been 'snuffed out.'
We are not surprised to see Derek's latest political stunt, and expect more of the same from him. It is unfortunate to see this desperate effort to be relevant, but it will neither deter nor distract us from our goal of defeating the NDP and getting Alberta back on track.

I'm sure Fildebrandt is serious, but I don't see he'll see any success.

[viper37]

Outside that one instance above, I can't recall any racism/xenophobia being shown by the Conservatives.  Unlike Trump's campaign.

I think the important thing is to stomp on it as soon it raises its ugly head so we do not come close to what is happening to our friends in the South.

like BB said, the problem lies in what we see as racist.

BB and I don't see that ad as being racist.  One could argue that our superior intellect, as evidenced by our choice of political parties pushes us to see beyond the message and concentrate on the core, but I suspect non PC voters like you, Jacob and Oex will strongly disagree with that assessment

Seriously, I think it's important to fight overt racism and xenophobia where it raises its ugly head.  You see a picture on your friends Facebook saying that Islam marries 5 year old girls, you re-establish the facts.  Someone keeps posting racist comments on your own page, you bar him/her.  A MP pronounce some disturbing ideas about immigrants, you go to source, ask if he truly said that, and if the case, strongly word your opposition to such language.  When enough people complain about the tone, the rethoric goes down.  If people cheer such language, then it goes up.

So far, since the Conservatives have mostly avoided heinous rethoric, disciplined/dismissed their own members promoting racist thoughts, I don't think it's a racist party, I don't think it's fair of qualifying them as extreme right wing, or hinting as such like the Libs constantly do.

The fact is, Quebec has beared the burden of the immigrant costs so far, Ontario a close second and as talks of receiving more migrants increased, they put Ford in office.

I think it's a hint that immigration is badly managed in this country.

The refugee process was flawed from the beginning, I told you so.  I was called racist for that.  We simply did not have the resources to grant asylum to so many people at once.  There's a difference between 50mm rain in 48hrs and 50mm rain in 4 minutes.  We got swomped by the number of syrian refugee demands.  So we cut elsewhere, and refused to accept more Rohyngas when they really needed it, facing a true campaign of ethnic cleansing.  I still think we should have kept with the Conservatives' plan and accept Syrian refugees from endangered minorities first, then accomodate others.

Once the cameras were gone, Justin was nowhere to be found.  And refugees arrived here, not knowing anything about our country, with no canadian official to great them. Because they were busy elsewhere.  People frightened, not knowing what to expect in Canada, left for themselves.  That's what the Liberals call "diversity".  And anyone challenging that is a racist.

Well, I'm a racist then.  And I'm proud to be such a kind of racist.

When you move to a new place, when 24hrs earlier you had bullets singing in your ears, when you witnessed horrible things in your home country, I think you deserve a chance to live elsewhere and be greated with smiling people when you arrive, not just some camera addicted moron who disapears once the lights are gone.  You deserve to get help from the government prospectively granting you asylum, guiding you to the process, giving you the resources you need to adapt to your new life.
If the host country can't/won't give it, than you have to rethink how many people at a time you can truly accomodate.  It's easy to say "we're generous, we'll grant asylum to 100 000 more people in the next 6 months".  It's harder to make sure the resources are there and you don't compromise your capacity to act elsewhere.

The way Justin governs this country is akin to how Adolf Hitler managed his war.  I keep having this image of the bunker where he plans his massive counter-attack with phantom divisions, divisions either destroyed or totally non existant.  That's the way he does things.  All smile for the camera, totally ineffective otherwise.

You guys hated Harper's gut for telling the truth.  But he was not only right, he was damn efficient in managing the country.

[viper37]

Court again urges Justice Minister to make federal appointments

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/07/18/charges-stayed-in-13m-fraud-case-because-no-judge-available-for-trial.html

Nothing a selfie can't solve

[crazy canuck]

Bernier lets loose with his own racist rant

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maxime-bernier-extreme-multiculturalism-1.4783325

[Barrister]

I see no issue whatsoever with Bernier's tweets.

[Valmy]

That was a rant? Seems like some reasonable reflection. Little ethnic enclaves and ghettos is something that has always caused anxiety. But history shows that do not last forever. Eventually the conservative ways of the enclave get challenged by new generations who are not content to be entirely bound by the ways of the old country. So I think a little investigation into the history of these immigrant ghettos and enclaves might soothe his anxiety a bit.

But I guess in Canada that little reflection was an unseemly tirade. I am used to actual racist rants over here in the US not that weaksauce stuff.

[Barrister]

That was a rant? Seems like some reasonable reflection.

[Jacob]

I see no issue whatsoever with Bernier's tweets.

You think "Trudeau's extreme multiculturalism and cult of diversity will divide us into little tribes that have less and less in common..." reflects the values of your Conservative party?

Could you outline which of the Trudeau government's policies or statements could be classified as "extreme multiculturalism" and/ or congruent with some sort of "cult of diversity"?

I'm also curious who you think Bernier has in mind when he says "[h]aving people live among us who reject basic Western values such as freedom, equality, tolerance and openness doesn't make us strong. People who refuse to integrate into our society and want to live apart in their ghetto don't make our society strong"?

[Barrister]

I see no issue whatsoever with Bernier's tweets.

You think "Trudeau's extreme multiculturalism and cult of diversity will divide us into little tribes that have less and less in common..." reflects the values of your Conservative party?

Yes.

[Jacob]

That was a rant? Seems like some reasonable reflection. Little ethnic enclaves and ghettos is something that has always caused anxiety. But history shows that do not last forever. Eventually the conservative ways of the enclave get challenged by new generations who are not content to be entirely bound by the ways of the old country. So I think a little investigation into the history of these immigrant ghettos and enclaves might soothe his anxiety a bit.

But I guess in Canada that little reflection was an unseemly tirade. I am used to actual racist rants over here in the US not that weaksauce stuff.

It is very unlikely that Bernier will do the "little investigation into the history of these immigrant ghettos and enclaves might soothe his anxiety a bit" which you propose, since he's staking his political course on magnifying and intensifying the anxiety you speak of.

[Jacob]

You think "Trudeau's extreme multiculturalism and cult of diversity will divide us into little tribes that have less and less in common..." reflects the values of your Conservative party?

Yes.

Are you able to articulate what about it that is extreme and cultish?

[crazy canuck]

That was a rant? Seems like some reasonable reflection. Little ethnic enclaves and ghettos is something that has always caused anxiety. But history shows that do not last forever. Eventually the conservative ways of the enclave get challenged by new generations who are not content to be entirely bound by the ways of the old country. So I think a little investigation into the history of these immigrant ghettos and enclaves might soothe his anxiety a bit.

But I guess in Canada that little reflection was an unseemly tirade. I am used to actual racist rants over here in the US not that weaksauce stuff.

Little reflection?  I suspect what is happening in the US has desensitized you so that you can no longer hear an anti Muslim/ anti immigration attack when it is veiled since those doing the same in your country have dropped all pretense.

I don't see much difference between his attack on immigration and Ingraham bemoaning that the US is being destroyed by immigration.

[crazy canuck]

I see no issue whatsoever with Bernier's tweets.

No real surprise, this is the person you wanted to be PM.

[crazy canuck]

The Conservative's response to Bernier.  From the Globe:

The comments have drawn sharp criticism from several partisans, including Liberal MP Marc Miller, who called on Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer to clarify whether the party supports Bernier's views.

Scheer's spokesperson Brock Harrison issued a statement Monday expressing support for the idea of diversity, but without specifically mentioning Bernier or his comments.

"Canada has been built by people from all over the world coming here to enjoy the freedom, prosperity and equality that our country offers," Harrison said.

"Conservatives will continue to recognize and celebrate the contributions made to Canada from people from diverse backgrounds that have enriched our history and our society."

[Malthus]

I see no issue whatsoever with Bernier's tweets.

You think "Trudeau's extreme multiculturalism and cult of diversity will divide us into little tribes that have less and less in common..." reflects the values of your Conservative party?

Could you outline which of the Trudeau government's policies or statements could be classified as "extreme multiculturalism" and/ or congruent with some sort of "cult of diversity"?

I'm also curious who you think Bernier has in mind when he says "[h]aving people live among us who reject basic Western values such as freedom, equality, tolerance and openness doesn't make us strong. People who refuse to integrate into our society and want to live apart in their ghetto don't make our society strong"?

From the article:

Notably, in an interview with the New York Times Magazine in 2015, Trudeau said Canada has "no core identity" and "no mainstream" adding he sees Canada as the "first post-national state."

It is easy to see how that could get a reaction. The "progressive message" as to what Canada is keeps changing. In the 60s it was all "the two solitudes" - English and French. Then, with the acknowledgement of the fact that the nation was founded on the territory of and in collaboration with native nations, it was three founding peoples - Native Canadians, English and French - a vision largely embedded in our 1980s Constitution. Isn't this the "core identity" and "mainstream"? It's expressly built on several pre-existing nationalities.

I do think that we are evolving beyond that, to a nation where the rule of law and certain norms of civility, while based on these traditions, are approaching the universal. I suspect this is what Trudeau meant. 

So I'm more in Trudeau's camp and I don't agree with Bernier's position at all: as everyone here knows, I've taken heat before for being a big supporter of multiculturalism. I suspect Bernier is taking aim at a strawman, and that the above quotes from the article are plucked out of context. 

However, I also don't agree that there is no reasonable debate to be had over what sort of country we have or want, or that those who disagree with me are all "racists" and that any opposition to my position is nativist dog-whistling - more specifically, that Bernier's tweets are racist dog whistling. I further don't agree that labelling them as such is helpful, though given the baleful influence of current US politics, probably inevitable.