[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

So in other words, you fully endorse attacking the immigration system through an add which attacks the refugee system on the basis that refugees and diversity (one the few words in the tweet that are clearly visible) are bad.

You just talked me out of any prospect there might have been for voting Conservative in the next election.

[Oexmelin]

I'm rather amused at your references to Harper and to Karl Rove.  You are well aware that Harper is no longer the leader, and Karl Rove has absolutely nothing to do with Trump or his administration?

I know enough about political parties to know that even if Harper is gone, there are dynamics that go deeper than just one person. Especially when that one person is still, as far as I know, co-director of the CPC Canada Fund... As for Karl Rove having nothing to do with Trump, I beg to differ. The sort of politics, and political strategy, advocated by Rove, is very much linked with the radicalization of the Republican party. Rove himself may now wish to dissociate himself from what Trump does, but it remains a byproduct of his own efforts.

I'll know too far when I see it.

I sure hope so. But I'd suggest it's still a good exercise to ask yourself *before* seeing it, lest the dynamics of the political game leads one down a less certain path. To tell the truth, I am somewhat dismayed that you see *nothing* wrong with the ad, nor that you seem unwilling to even concede that the current dynamics, perhaps, ought to inform how the ad is read (and thus, produced). 

[crazy canuck]

BB, do me a favour and go back and read that add.  What is the one word that is clearly visible - "diversity".  Now tell me, is that a coincidence.  Did people who made that add just randomly make that one word clearly visible.  If it was a conscious choice, why would that be?

[Barrister]

BB, do me a favour and go back and read that add.  What is the one word that is clearly visible - "diversity".  Now tell me, is that a coincidence.  Did people who made that add just randomly make that one word clearly visible.  If it was a conscious choice, why would that be?

[Jacob]

How so?  It's clearly about the migrant issue.

How is it clearly about the migrant issue (not mentioned) and not the immigration system (which is mentioned directly)?

If it's not a dog-whistle, why is the word "Diversity" the primary term associated with Trudeau in this claim that he has broken the immigration system (a system which is increasing the diversity in Canada)?

Seems pretty clear it's an attempt to attack diversity and legal immigration by associating it with negative conservative stereotypes about Trudeau.

[crazy canuck]

BB, do me a favour and go back and read that add.  What is the one word that is clearly visible - "diversity".  Now tell me, is that a coincidence.  Did people who made that add just randomly make that one word clearly visible.  If it was a conscious choice, why would that be?

You find that funny?

[Jacob]

You find that funny?

He's going full derspiess.

[HVC]

In more conservative news Ford has wasted no time in going back to the 1998 sex Ed curriculum for Ontario schools.

[viper37]

Gee, I do so wonder where the Conservatives are going with this...

hmm
Conservatives:

The Conservative party has proposed a number of measures on Canadian immigration. For settlement support, the Conservatives hope to address the need for adequate and equitable resources for the instruction of language to immigrants and immigrant families. With immigrants reaching functional capability in one of the country's two languages, the Conservatives hope it will help with societal and workplace integration. Additionally, they want to streamline the funding processes for settlement services in order to build on stability and allow for long-term planning by service providers.

With regards to entry applications, one of the Conservative goals is to ensure that Citizenship and Immigration Canada is properly staffed and resourced in order to improve application processing time and ensure fair procedure. Furthermore, they hope to reorganize the application process so applicants can have ready access to their application information and easily check their application status. The Conservatives have also expressed a desire to reduce the need for Temporary Residence Permits (TRPs) issued by the Minister, hoping to do so by making the application process more fair and efficient.

explain to me what you see as racism, facism, trumpism or simply fanning the flames of xenophobia here please.

Trudeau decided to increase the number of Syrian refugees coming in and to shorten the timespan on wich they would come.  As I said during the election, we did not have the resources.  The result was a swamped process and many of these poor people left to fend for themselves.

Then Trudeau tweets that everyone is welcome in Canada.  What does some poor schmuck barely litterate, working insane hours in New York knows about our immigration laws?  When is brother Marcellin tells him Canada welcomes everyone, what do you think happens?
a) He immediatly looks to the internet, search for Immigratin and refugee canada, looks at how he can move from the US, where he might face expulsion back to Haiti, realizes he can't be admitted, then seek an immigration lawyer to find any loopholes possible

b) Take a bus, hop in a cab, ask for the Canadian frontier, start walking until someone spots you then claim refugee status?

let's assume that a) is not going to happen.  at all.
Look at b).
Let's now assume that you totally disregard Canada's well being and do not mind if any criminal elements sneak through the border, so long as we receive all the refugees in the world that wished to seek asylum in Canada.

How is a prospective refugee well served by having his two hands amputated after illegally crossing the border in winter?
How are prospective immigrants and refugees, because they will be processed by the same agents, are well served by living in tents inside the Montreal Olympic Stadium from early spring to late fall?  In not really decent lodging during the next winter?  May I remind you that Canada still has not processed all of the Haitians refugees asylum demands from last fall.

If you are a border agent task with protecting our borders, do you think your work to seek out bad elements is simplified or made more difficult when there's a refugee wave after refugee wave?

Given that the provinces are responsible for the costs of maintaining refugees on their soil until such time as Canada approves or rejects their asylum, is it fair or not to ask the Federal government to share a part of the burden?

If the system is swamped so that now, legitimate immigrants are put "on hold" because we have too much refugees to sort, is it fair to say that there is indeed a problem?  If we reject, say, gays and lesbians from countries where they are persecuted, if we reject Muslims that face torture&execution for their Faith because we have too many refugees to process, is it fair to say that:
a) refugee and immigration are the same political system, in that they depend from the same dept with the same staff and the same resources?
AND
b) our system is indeed broken if Canada is unable to help those truly in need while we sort out economic refugees invited here by a careless tweet from our PM?

[viper37]

@CC:
C'mon. I doubt any casual reader of the add would go beyond the clearly printed message to contort itself and strain his eyes in trying to read diversity. I had to read it 3-4 times before I finally saw what you and Jacob see.
All I really saw was your PM's careless tweet and some Haitian with his luggage trying to get illegally in our country. 
Maybe it's the only things he posesses.
Maybe it's full of drugs.
Maybe it's full of cash.

I do not know.  I do not really care.

There are procedures in place to emigrate in this country, even to claim asylum, and I just wish our PM would adress the situation.  Well, he kinda did.  It took him a while. But he finally did.  Good on him.  Now, he needs to payback the provinces what is owed. And make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Barrister]

BB, do me a favour and go back and read that add.  What is the one word that is clearly visible - "diversity".  Now tell me, is that a coincidence.  Did people who made that add just randomly make that one word clearly visible.  If it was a conscious choice, why would that be?

You find that funny?

I find YOU funny.  Hilarious even.

"Diversity" was one of the words in Justin Trudeau's post.  I don't see any evidence that the post did anything to somehow emphasize that one word.

Now I don't question the picture posted - but I haven't seen it before (and to no one's surprise I have Liked the Conservative Party on social media.  But for comparison, here's the CPC's most recent post on the same issue:

Canadians expect our immigration system to be compassionate and fair. It is not compassionate, nor fair, when individuals are forced to live in homeless shelters, university dormitories, and tent cities because Justin Trudeau has compromised the integrity of our immigration system: http://cpcp.cc/b-5oU8

https://www.facebook.com/cpcpcc/photos/a.10150215051769204.329974.5661704203/10156504799349204/?type=3&theater

I'm really, really not seeing any racist dog whistles here.  I really think you're so outraged by Trump's explicit racism and daily outrages you're looking for echoes of it where they don't exist.

[crazy canuck]

"Diversity" was one of the words in Justin Trudeau's post.  I don't see any evidence that the post did anything to somehow emphasize that one word.

Ok, if you interpret the fact that the only word not obscured is "diversity" as meaning they did nothing "to somehow emphasize that one word" then your blinders are well and truly affixed.

I don't find you hilarious. Just frustratingly disappointing.  If the Conservative party is to be prevented from going down the road of right wing populism you are the sort of person within the party that needs to call bullshit on this sort of thing.

@Viper, As I stated in my first post, there is absolutely nothing wrong with drawing attention to the fact that all aspects of the refugee systemare woefully underfunded.  I think we are all in agreement on that point.  But that is not the point that picture and the catch phrase make.  The fact that the image is so different from the written text you posted is the very essence of a dog whistle. 

Btw - great to see you in this thread 

[viper37]

@Viper, As I stated in my first post, there is absolutely nothing wrong with drawing attention to the fact that all aspects of the refugee systemare woefully underfunded.  I think we are all in agreement on that point.  But that is not the point that picture and the catch phrase make.  The fact that the image is so different from the written text you posted is the very essence of a dog whistle. 

I don't see it that way, that is all.

the ad is meant to shock: bold text, strong words, a broken fence, a migrant carrying only his luggage, it points to signs of something broken, it appeals to Canadians emotional values as being a tolerant, kind people.

Yes, I would agree with you and Oex that some politicians, even from CPP, do take things too far sometimes*, and should watch their language to be doubly careful in an age of trumpism, where this current runs strong, even in Canada.

Imho, the fact that we see diversity by twisting our head is not part of any hidden message about restricting illegal immigrations.  Past decisions from the previous government and just about any proposed policies by the opposition does not support that theory.  Outside that one instance above, I can't recall any racism/xenophobia being shown by the Conservatives.  Unlike Trump's campaign.

Btw - great to see you in this thread 

thanks! 



*Something about refugee shacks being "too good" by Pierre Poilièvre, I think.

[crazy canuck]

Outside that one instance above, I can't recall any racism/xenophobia being shown by the Conservatives.  Unlike Trump's campaign.

I think the important thing is to stomp on it as soon it raises its ugly head so we do not come close to what is happening to our friends in the South.

[Barrister]

Outside that one instance above, I can't recall any racism/xenophobia being shown by the Conservatives.  Unlike Trump's campaign.

I think the important thing is to stomp on it as soon it raises its ugly head so we do not come close to what is happening to our friends in the South.

No.  That way lies madness - looking for enemies behind every shadow, and looking for coded messages in social media posts.

Deal with things as they are.  Deal with policies as they are - and not looking for "hidden agendas".