[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

So one story that's getting a little bit of play, but is going to have huge implications, was the announcement that Greyhound is pulling out all of its bus service from Western Canada.  That's going to be huge for a lot of communities - in particular first nations communities - because then if you don't have a vehicle there is no way to travel between towns.

Greyhound says its ridership is down dramatically, but I don't really see why that would be.

Hopefully other private companies will step in to the void.  There are a few already providing bus service - but they all specialize in higher-margin customers.

[Oexmelin]

Gee, I do so wonder where the Conservatives are going with this...

[Barrister]

Gee, I do so wonder where the Conservatives are going with this...

There's been a large increase in migrants crossing Canada's land borders and claiming asylum in the last 2-3 years.  There's been many complaints from Premiers that the Feds aren't doing anything to either discourage the trend, or to help with the costs of housing these migrants.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/asylum-seekers-committee-1.4748308

It's not a racist dog-whistle - it's a legitimate issue.

[Oexmelin]

Yes, I find it wonderful that apparently, Conservatives operate in an outer-space type of vacuum of international politics that allows everyone to read this as a meaningful, respectful, engagement with a legitimate issue. 

[crazy canuck]

Gee, I do so wonder where the Conservatives are going with this...

It's not a racist dog-whistle - it's a legitimate issue.

The clear message in that add is that diversity and welcoming refugees is bad for Canada.

The question of funding to assist with housing those claimants and properly funding the tribunal which hears those cases are valid issues, but that is not what that add is attempting to address.

Edit: also, something I did not notice before, is they are conflating immigration with refugee claimants. "Justin Trudeau has broken Canada's immigration system".  That makes their intent even more clear.

[Barrister]

Yes, I find it wonderful that apparently, Conservatives operate in an outer-space type of vacuum of international politics that allows everyone to read this as a meaningful, respectful, engagement with a legitimate issue.

So because Trump exists, any critique of our immigration or refugee system becomes... what exactly?

Border security is a perfectly valid political issue, and not at all at odds with the Conservative Party's support for legal immigration.

[crazy canuck]

Yes, I find it wonderful that apparently, Conservatives operate in an outer-space type of vacuum of international politics that allows everyone to read this as a meaningful, respectful, engagement with a legitimate issue.

So because Trump exists, any critique of our immigration or refugee system becomes... what exactly?

Border security is a perfectly valid political issue, and not at all at odds with the Conservative Party's support for legal immigration.

Any critique?  This add is full of anti-immigration animus.

[Barrister]

Yes, I find it wonderful that apparently, Conservatives operate in an outer-space type of vacuum of international politics that allows everyone to read this as a meaningful, respectful, engagement with a legitimate issue.

So because Trump exists, any critique of our immigration or refugee system becomes... what exactly?

Border security is a perfectly valid political issue, and not at all at odds with the Conservative Party's support for legal immigration.

Any critique?  This add is full of anti-immigration animus.

How so?  It's clearly about the migrant issue.

[Barrister]

Edit: also, something I did not notice before, is they are conflating immigration with refugee claimants. "Justin Trudeau has broken Canada's immigration system".  That makes their intent even more clear.

It's all part of the same system.  The government department is Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (and was previously Immigration and Citizenship Canada until Trudeau renamed it).

[crazy canuck]

How so?  It's clearly about the migrant issue.

No, actually it is clearly about "immigration".  Read the line at the bottom.

Edit: also, something I did not notice before, is they are conflating immigration with refugee claimants. "Justin Trudeau has broken Canada's immigration system".  That makes their intent even more clear.

It's all part of the same system.  The government department is Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (and was previously Immigration and Citizenship Canada until Trudeau renamed it).

The immigration system is separate from the refugee system.  They have separate adjudicative processes and functions.  One does not inform or impact the other at all.


You have a huge set of blinders on crafted out of party loyalty. 

[Oexmelin]

So because Trump exists, any critique of our immigration or refugee system becomes... what exactly?

Because Trump exists (and all the other right-wing populists movements of Europe), any critique of our immigration or refugee system becomes a lot more volatile, and requires, if one wants to be decent about it, careful management to avoid harnessing a rampant xenophobia that now finds legitimacy in expressing itself worldwide. That ad is neither decent, nor careful.

I've always respected your militant commitment to the Conservative party, but I'd suggest that now (rather than later) is the time to ask yourself just how far will be too far for you. I know that Harper has taken to heart lessons from Karl Rove & Co., and taken many of his cues from American conservatism. We are seeing what it has unleashed in the US. I'd be extremely prudent in excusing so readily cheap hybrids of fear-mongering and attack ads.

[Barrister]

The immigration system is separate from the refugee system.  They have separate adjudicative processes and functions.  One does not inform or impact the other at all.

You have a huge set of blinders on crafted out of party loyalty.

There are separate processes, but all a part of the same system.  Which is why it's all a part of the same government department.

I would argue that you are viewing everything through an anti-Trump hysteria, and seeing linkages that do not exist.

[crazy canuck]

The immigration system is separate from the refugee system.  They have separate adjudicative processes and functions.  One does not inform or impact the other at all.

You have a huge set of blinders on crafted out of party loyalty.

There are separate processes, but all a part of the same system.  Which is why it's all a part of the same government department.

I would argue that you are viewing everything through an anti-Trump hysteria, and seeing linkages that do not exist.

So in other words, you fully endorse attacking the immigration system through an add which attacks the refugee system on the basis that refugees and diversity (one the few words in the tweet that are clearly visible) are bad.

You just talked me out of any prospect there might have been for voting Conservative in the next election. 

[Barrister]

So because Trump exists, any critique of our immigration or refugee system becomes... what exactly?

Because Trump exists (and all the other right-wing populists movements of Europe), any critique of our immigration or refugee system becomes a lot more volatile, and requires, if one wants to be decent about it, careful management to avoid harnessing a rampant xenophobia that now finds legitimacy in expressing itself worldwide. That ad is neither decent, nor careful.

I've always respected your militant commitment to the Conservative party, but I'd suggest that now (rather than later) is the time to ask yourself just how far will be too far for you. I know that Harper has taken to heart lessons from Karl Rove & Co., and taken many of his cues from American conservatism. We are seeing what it has unleashed in the US. I'd be extremely prudent in excusing so readily cheap hybrids of fear-mongering and attack ads.

Oex, the CPC is not the GOP.  A significant part of the CPCs base and path to power has been for several years, and continues to be, reaching out to new Canadians.  New immigrants to Canada are just as concerned as native-born Canadians about the perception that potentially fraudulent refugees are coming across the US border into Canada, and thus queue-jumping the lengthy process they themselves had to go through to come to this country.

I'm rather amused at your references to Harper and to Karl Rove.  You are well aware that Harper is no longer the leader, and Karl Rove has absolutely nothing to do with Trump or his administration?

When the CPC has dabbled in more nativist talking points (*cough* Barbaric Practices Hotline) it has backfired on them.  Kelly Leitch, who tried a similar angle, similarly had it blow up on her and she's announced her retirement from politics.

I'll know too far when I see it.  I'm #NeverTrump and was pulling for Hillary, a first for me.  But I see absolutely nothing like Trumpism in Andrew Scheer's Conservative Party.

[Grey Fox]

When the PC says to fix something it always means to end that part of the government, not give more money to the province to help them help the refugees.