[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Jacob]

Long time goal of Bains.  He couldn't do it in a minority government because Weaver was against the carding system.  But in a majority he could obviously do it.

When did it change away from that?

Back twenty years ago in my union organizer phase IIRC we just had to get enough cards signed to get certified.

[Malthus]

Thoughts on the budget?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/budget-2022-chrystia-freeland-1.6412227

Hard to see a $52 billion dollar budget as showing "fiscal restraint", but I guess that's where we are.

A focus on housing price is absolutely an area that governments should focus on, but hard because it's largely an area under provincial (even municipal) jurisdiction.  The effort to "slash red tape" is also a good sentiment, but also largely a provincial area.  And creating a Tax-Free Home Savings account may paradoxically boost house prices.

Still no idea how $5.3 billion over five years is going to create a national dental program. In 2018 it was reported Canadian spend $12 billion per years on dental services.

On dental programs: I'm not sure of the details, but judging by other healthcare programs I've seen, way it will likely work is this: they will establish (or rather provinces will establish) a "schedule of benefits", on the understanding that the total pay-out will be X dollars for all procedures. They will try to pit various dental specialties against each other - each trying to get their process to be worth more $ on the schedule.

They will exclude "purely cosmetic" procedures from the schedule - those you will have to pay for out of pocket.

Finally, for some procedures, they will agree to pay for a "basic" procedure, and if you want the "deluxe" procedure, you have to pay the difference out of pocket.

The latter technique is what they do in Ontario for lots of implanted medical devices. For example, there is a device used to replace lenses in people's eyes after cataract surgery. Ontario will pay for a "basic" device, and they have never updated it. This device is now considered essentially obsolete, no one would actually get it from choice. So everyone who has cash or subsidiary insurance gets the "upgraded" device. They (or their insurers) pay the difference in price out of pocket.

These techniques enable the government to claim all sorts of things are covered, while not busting their budget too much. My guess is a great deal of the 12 billion a year is for stuff they will exclude off the bat as "purely cosmetic".

[crazy canuck]

Long time goal of Bains.  He couldn't do it in a minority government because Weaver was against the carding system.  But in a majority he could obviously do it.

When did it change away from that?

Back twenty years ago in my union organizer phase IIRC we just had to get enough cards signed to get certified.

A long time ago.  I would guess at a couple of decades.  As a minority government the NDP minister of Labour created a panel of three labour experts (one from labour, one from management, and one neutral) to advise about changes to the Labour Code.  The panel, with the labour representative dissenting, recommended against making this change.  They observed that the carding system was open to more abuse then the current system and they recommended ways to improve the secret ballot process so that employers had less of an opportunity to put their thumb on the scale.

The goal is supposed to be determining the will of the workers in the workplace.  At least that is how the Code is written. The carding system greatly favours unions.  And so it is not surprising it has been adopted by the NDP and hoped for by the union movement. The government has I think correctly judged that this not going to register much in the public mind and particularly when there is a war, a federal budget etc.  And that has worked. 

There is a separate debate about whether increased unionization should be encouraged.  This approach certainly accomplishes that goal.  The thing that is questionable is that it is being done under the guise of attempting to learn the true wishes of the workers.

[Jacob]

Yeah a couple of decades sounds right... I think it was either in 1999 or 2000.

[crazy canuck]

Here's something that may be of general interest I just saw in the globe about BC's approach to promoting innovation and economic growth

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-the-professor-behind-british-columbias-new-economic-plan/

[Rex Francorum]

Isn't dental services a provincial jurisdiction? I presume then the federal government will give the possibility for the provinces to get out of the federal plan with full compensation.

[Josephus]

These techniques enable the government to claim all sorts of things are covered, while not busting their budget too much. My guess is a great deal of the 12 billion a year is for stuff they will exclude off the bat as "purely cosmetic".

And I'm fine with that. As it is now, there are people who cannot afford root canals, cavity fillings, etc. This should cover that stuff. A crown, not necessary. Teeth whitening? Nah.

[Jacob]

Here's something that may be of general interest I just saw in the globe about BC's approach to promoting innovation and economic growth

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-the-professor-behind-british-columbias-new-economic-plan/

Seems reasonably persuasive on the face of it.

[Malthus]

Isn't dental services a provincial jurisdiction? I presume then the federal government will give the possibility for the provinces to get out of the federal plan with full compensation.

Yup, firmly within provincial jurisdiction. The feds would provide cash as long as the provinces provide a program, I would assume.

[Malthus]

These techniques enable the government to claim all sorts of things are covered, while not busting their budget too much. My guess is a great deal of the 12 billion a year is for stuff they will exclude off the bat as "purely cosmetic".

And I'm fine with that. As it is now, there are people who cannot afford root canals, cavity fillings, etc. This should cover that stuff. A crown, not necessary. Teeth whitening? Nah.

Yeah, it's always been a bit of an anomaly that quite medically necessary dental care isn't covered, and I assume the current proposal is to correct that.

There is a certain amount of window dressing likely to be involved, because things don't neatly divide into necessary and not-necessary. See the example of replacement cataract lenses. 

[crazy canuck]

Isn't dental services a provincial jurisdiction? I presume then the federal government will give the possibility for the provinces to get out of the federal plan with full compensation.

From what I have read it is going to work the same way the feds fund other medical services provided by the provinces. Where I think this gets more complicated is who is going to define what is an eligible service or not. The feds don't have any jurisdiction over those sorts of things.  But if the federal government doesn't have any influence over what is an eligible expense then this becomes a bottomless pit of money for them. I suspect what we will see is tied funding Which requires provinces to comply with a particular set of program requirements. That I think would be a huge step back into the bad old days of federal spending controls.  But I'm not sure what their alternative is. Perhaps it'll be something like the daycare program where they get provinces to agree to receive funding in return for setting out how they will use it.

[crazy canuck]

Here's something that may be of general interest I just saw in the globe about BC's approach to promoting innovation and economic growth

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-the-professor-behind-british-columbias-new-economic-plan/

Seems reasonably persuasive on the face of it.

Yes, I particularly like the approach of not just handing out tax incentives and hope it achieves the objective without some kind of measurable goal. I think for too long we have simply trusted to "market forces" to achieve complex policy objectives.  I like her line that really all that accomplishes is padding the bottom line of those who know how to tap into government funding.

But what I don't know is what they are actually going to propose in place of that more blunt approach.

[viper37]

Thoughts on the budget?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/budget-2022-chrystia-freeland-1.6412227

Hard to see a $52 billion dollar budget as showing "fiscal restraint", but I guess that's where we are.

A focus on housing price is absolutely an area that governments should focus on, but hard because it's largely an area under provincial (even municipal) jurisdiction.  The effort to "slash red tape" is also a good sentiment, but also largely a provincial area.  And creating a Tax-Free Home Savings account may paradoxically boost house prices.

Still no idea how $5.3 billion over five years is going to create a national dental program. In 2018 it was reported Canadian spend $12 billion per years on dental services.

It's an inflationist budget that heavily invests in provincial fields.  Typical Liberal bullshit.

It is doing nothing to control the prices of rent/house buying.  That tax savings account will have a small opposite effect, actually.

The only way to fix the problem is to either build more or wait 'til the market regulates itself.

[viper37]

Isn't dental services a provincial jurisdiction? I presume then the federal government will give the possibility for the provinces to get out of the federal plan with full compensation.

1) yes
2) You are a dreamer, right?   They have a majority now, with the complicity of the NDP to cover their corruption.

[Josephus]

The only way to fix the problem is to either build more or wait 'til the market regulates itself.