[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

I wonder why the Liberals are reluctant to collapse all the programs into UBI.

That's just not the Liberal pro-capitalist MO.

But that is the thing, all of their programs are based on demand side economics not the sort of pro capitalist measures we see in the US, so why not just make it administratively less expensive and easier to understand.  A lot of time and money is now being spent trying to navigate what is becoming a confusing collection of policies and benefits.

[Grey Fox]

Yes but that is not how the Natural Governing Party thinks. I think.

Imo, UBI would be unrollback-able, this insane thing can atleast be sold has temporary.

[Barrister]

I wonder why the Liberals are reluctant to collapse all the programs into UBI.

That's just not the Liberal pro-capitalist MO.

But that is the thing, all of their programs are based on demand side economics not the sort of pro capitalist measures we see in the US, so why not just make it administratively less expensive and easier to understand.  A lot of time and money is now being spent trying to navigate what is becoming a confusing collection of policies and benefits.

My understanding is that the CERB benefit (which is the main one) has very little oversight being done, mostly by design in order to get money out there quickly.

Students wouldn't qualify for CERB though, which is why the student program was announced.

And what possible benefit would it be to start sending monthly checks to you, me, Malthus, HVC, Grey Fox monthly checks?  We're all still working (I think).  Why send monthly checks to Josephus, since he's going to get EI?

[Josephus]

Why send monthly checks to Josephus, since he's going to get EI?

Good question. And it's confusing.

I am getting a fair severance package because I have worked for a long time at the company.  Now to qualify for EI, after my severance runs out, I need to apply within four weeks of my termination date (April 20).

But right now they are directing most applicants directly to CERB. Which I don't want, and shouldn't qualify for. It's very confusing.

Note, though, while all of us will get CERB if we apply, my understanding is, at least you guys, will have to pay it back come tax time next year.

[Grey Fox]

Why don't you want CERB?

[crazy canuck]

Why send monthly checks to Josephus, since he's going to get EI?

Good question. And it's confusing.

I am getting a fair severance package because I have worked for a long time at the company.  Now to qualify for EI, after my severance runs out, I need to apply within four weeks of my termination date (April 20).

But right now they are directing most applicants directly to CERB. Which I don't want, and shouldn't qualify for. It's very confusing.

Note, though, while all of us will get CERB if we apply, my understanding is, at least you guys, will have to pay it back come tax time next year.

It is very confusing, Service Canada is not even sure how EI and CERB are supposed to work together.  And now we have a program for university students that assumes they can live on 750 less than others.  It makes little sense.

Here is a CBC piece making more points

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-student-benefit-covid-cesb-1.5541522


@ BB, what possible benefit?  Perhaps dramatically reducing administrative burden and increasing the chance that people who need the aid will receive it.

[crazy canuck]

Yes but that is not how the Natural Governing Party thinks. I think.

Imo, UBI would be unrollback-able, this insane thing can atleast be sold has temporary.

Good point, intentionally designed to be removed.  You sir get the Occam Razor award.

[crazy canuck]

One other anecdotal point about the benefit of UBI over the mess we have now, one of the biggest struggles for some of my clients with lower wage jobs is getting employees to come back to work when they shifted to producing PPE.  When the rules changed on the CERB to allow workers to earn employment income and receive the benefit, workers came back to work.

What I think that tells us is the theory that low wage workers are lazy and would rather stay at home than work isn't valid.  People want to work, they also want to have some security of income.

[Josephus]

Why don't you want CERB?

Because I'll have to pay it back. My severance counts as income. Also, I'm better off with EI than CERB

[crazy canuck]

Why don't you want CERB?

Because I'll have to pay it back. My severance counts as income. Also, I'm better off with EI than CERB

I will PM you when/if I know more.  One of the things Service Canada is trying to figure out is how all of that works now that the two are being administered together.  I have heard of some cases where Service Canada has allowed some duplication of benefits with CERB. 

[Grey Fox]

Why don't you want CERB?

Because I'll have to pay it back. My severance counts as income. Also, I'm better off with EI than CERB

Well yeah, you have to wait after that to apply but you can get EI after CERB runs out.

[Josephus]

Why don't you want CERB?

Because I'll have to pay it back. My severance counts as income. Also, I'm better off with EI than CERB

I will PM you when/if I know more.  One of the things Service Canada is trying to figure out is how all of that works now that the two are being administered together.  I have heard of some cases where Service Canada has allowed some duplication of benefits with CERB.

ok . Let me know what you hear

[Josephus]

The way I understand it is like this.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, I am getting a lump sum = to one year's salary

For all intents and purposes, I won't qualify for CERB because I'm still getting paid. (Even if it's a lump sum, it counts as a year). After a year, I qualify for EI.

I don't think you can mix CERB and either severance or EI. To me, the key letter there is "E". Emergency

[Grey Fox]

A year is too long for CERB.

Let's say you lose your jog right now without severance. You apply for CERB, when that runs out in July you apply for EI.

[Barrister]

A year is too long for CERB.

Let's say you lose your jog right now without severance. You apply for CERB, when that runs out in July you apply for EI.

He could apply right now and almost certainly get it.

But if they discover that he had his severance they'd claw that money back on next year's taxes.