[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

Looks like the Conservatives are taking a page out of the Trump playbook and are starting to attack the WHO.

The WHO has not exactly covered itself in glory here.  And it's relationship with China (which, again has not done well in this crisis) is very much open for debate.

Did you see that viral news clip where a reporter from Hong Kong asked a WHO scientist about Taiwan?  First she asked if Taiwan should be a member of the WHO (they should, but fair enough probably above this guy's pay grade) - he responded by pretending not to hear and hung up.  They called back, and asked a much more basic question about how Taiwan appears to be handling the pandemic very well - he then answers about China's effort, and then again ends the interview, this time for good.



And I didn't want to be the one who brought it up, but what about the news over the weekend that Alberta is shipping out PPE, and even a few ventilators, to BC, Ontario and Quebec?

[crazy canuck]

So pretty much a cut and paste from the Trumpists.

[PRC]

When I said Jason Kenney's response was "fine" to the pandemic... well that's clearly starting to rot. 

Now we have Jason Kenney criticizing Dr. Danielle Tam about her early response to Covid19 and saying she was "repeating talking points out of the People's Republic of China", and saying Alberta will allow medical equipment not approved by Health Canada, but that has gone through other countries testing processes.

No one is above criticism here... but this attack seems so out of place.  Maybe to deflect from his having the lowest approval rating out of all the provinces for their response?

After a great PR move in shipping out the ventilators, masks and other PPE to provinces in need that BB mentioned, Kenney shits out of his mouth all over any advantage that PR gave.  I don't get it.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, Kenney and Scheer are making the same points.  Last I looked there are about 5% of Canadians who approve of Trump's approach.  I wonder who Kenney and Scheer are trying to appeal to here.  Playing to their base (assuming even their base agrees with attacking Tam) seems a unproductive move for them.  Scheer is on his way out anyway and does Kenney need to solidify his support amongst the hard right?  that would be surprising.

[crazy canuck]

So Trump says he is thinking about opening the border.  Yeah, get back to us when you aren't the world's epicentre for the virus.

[viper37]

Yeah, Kenney and Scheer are making the same points.  Last I looked there are about 5% of Canadians who approve of Trump's approach.  I wonder who Kenney and Scheer are trying to appeal to here.  Playing to their base (assuming even their base agrees with attacking Tam) seems a unproductive move for them.  Scheer is on his way out anyway and does Kenney need to solidify his support amongst the hard right?  that would be surprising.

I disagree with the approach, but I have a lot of criticism toward the WHO too, and I certainly want to understand how things went down from China -> WHO -> My country -> My province.

What worked, what didn't.  Why was the WHO singing praise for China when we already knew they'd been hiding it to a large extent?  Why the evasive/non answers about Taiwan.  Why did the Federal governement here prefered to listen to the WHO rather than our own scientists?  Why did my province did not have some kind of tracking system for PPEs?  Consumption is at about 50x over the usual rate, even for washable PPEs (like visors), there's something very wrong there.
As I said, there are things that worked.  In general, the CERB thing went quickly, considering how massive a task it is.  Maybe some kind of system should be "permanent", I mean be there in the shadow, and you can triger it immediatly if the needs arise (economic crisis, another epidemic/pandemic).

Our intelligence network will need to reactivate its pandemic branches, not focus solely on terrorism.  That means more money for defense&security.  Not gonna sit well with the left.

Maybe virtual parliaments could be something to cut on MPs travels during emergency sessions, or to accomodate parents who need to work late in the night at the parliament during those intensive end of sessions bill readings.
We'll have lots of stuff to think about, to question.  But right now is not the time.

I am even refraining from overtly criticising too much any party, just like our provincial parties are avoiding politics for now, and concentrate on helping the Premier (they have a twice a week meeting, the Premier and all the opposition leaders, where they talk of what's to come, what's happening with the populace in their own ridings (echoes), any suggestions they want to make, etc.

I quite like this in these times, even though I voted for the guy in charge, I appreciate his willingness to take consel from others not in his party.

[viper37]

So Trump says he is thinking about opening the border.  Yeah, get back to us when you aren't the world's epicentre for the virus.

Last week he wanted to put the army at the border, now he wants it opened.

Maybe we should be sending the army to guard our border.

[Malthus]

I am even refraining from overtly criticising too much any party, just like our provincial parties are avoiding politics for now, and concentrate on helping the Premier (they have a twice a week meeting, the Premier and all the opposition leaders, where they talk of what's to come, what's happening with the populace in their own ridings (echoes), any suggestions they want to make, etc.

I quite like this in these times, even though I voted for the guy in charge, I appreciate his willingness to take consel from others not in his party.

I agree, and it seems a general response here in Canada, with the possible exception of the situation in Alberta (which I don't know much about).

You like and voted for your provincial government. I very much dislike and did not vote for mine. Yet here as well, politics appear to be on hold while people concentrate on pulling together to get through this thing. For perhaps the first time, the much-hated Ontario Conservatives are looking like a real government.

[Grey Fox]

I like & did not vote for my provincial government.  Sadly, Quebec made a mistake by concentrating almost exclusively on Hospitals & offloading to our LTC facilities.

[Malthus]

Yeah, LTC facilities are unfortunately the weak point everywhere. I know there was a spectacular horror show at that one particular Quebec facility, but many facilities in various provinces saw problems.  Everyone was concentrating on flattening the curve so that hospitals did not get swamped. That was accomplished it looks like, thankfully, but it appears not nearly enough attention was paid to LTC facilities, where the majority of deaths occurred.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, Kenney and Scheer are making the same points.  Last I looked there are about 5% of Canadians who approve of Trump's approach.  I wonder who Kenney and Scheer are trying to appeal to here.  Playing to their base (assuming even their base agrees with attacking Tam) seems a unproductive move for them.  Scheer is on his way out anyway and does Kenney need to solidify his support amongst the hard right?  that would be surprising.

I disagree with the approach, but I have a lot of criticism toward the WHO too, and I certainly want to understand how things went down from China -> WHO -> My country -> My province.

What worked, what didn't.  Why was the WHO singing praise for China when we already knew they'd been hiding it to a large extent?  Why the evasive/non answers about Taiwan.  Why did the Federal governement here prefered to listen to the WHO rather than our own scientists?  Why did my province did not have some kind of tracking system for PPEs?  Consumption is at about 50x over the usual rate, even for washable PPEs (like visors), there's something very wrong there.
As I said, there are things that worked.  In general, the CERB thing went quickly, considering how massive a task it is.  Maybe some kind of system should be "permanent", I mean be there in the shadow, and you can triger it immediatly if the needs arise (economic crisis, another epidemic/pandemic).

Our intelligence network will need to reactivate its pandemic branches, not focus solely on terrorism.  That means more money for defense&security.  Not gonna sit well with the left.

Maybe virtual parliaments could be something to cut on MPs travels during emergency sessions, or to accomodate parents who need to work late in the night at the parliament during those intensive end of sessions bill readings.
We'll have lots of stuff to think about, to question.  But right now is not the time.

I am even refraining from overtly criticising too much any party, just like our provincial parties are avoiding politics for now, and concentrate on helping the Premier (they have a twice a week meeting, the Premier and all the opposition leaders, where they talk of what's to come, what's happening with the populace in their own ridings (echoes), any suggestions they want to make, etc.

I quite like this in these times, even though I voted for the guy in charge, I appreciate his willingness to take consel from others not in his party.

The point that is being missed is the Federal government left placing restrictions to the Provinces, as they should.  It is a provincial responsibility - other than the border.  Criticizing Dr. Tam for not imposing restrictions therefore does not make much sense.  Unless of course the goal is to score political points which appears to be exactly what the Conservatives seem to be doing.  Public Health Officers were each making their own judgments as can be seen from the differences in response across the country reflecting different local circumstances.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, LTC facilities are unfortunately the weak point everywhere. I know there was a spectacular horror show at that one particular Quebec facility, but many facilities in various provinces saw problems.  Everyone was concentrating on flattening the curve so that hospitals did not get swamped. That was accomplished it looks like, thankfully, but it appears not nearly enough attention was paid to LTC facilities, where the majority of deaths occurred.

I am not sure why the other provinces did not implement the same protocols BC created once the infections were found here.  It may be that since BC was the first place infections were found in LTC others thought we were just unlucky.

[Josephus]

I agree there are issues with WHO. But now's not the time to cut them off, it's the only world health organization we got, and this is a world health issue. After this is over, then an analysis can take place, heads can roll, etc. But not now.

Also they haven't really recorded anything good since the late 70s

[crazy canuck]

I am not sure if people generally understand what the WHO actually does and perhaps more importantly what it cannot do.

Was it not critical enough of China - certainly.  Has it's complete lack of criticism of the profoundly stupid decisions made by the Trump administration been deafening in it's silence.  Certainly.

Is it the role of the WHO to tell governments what to do - nope.

Does the WHO provide large amounts of technical support and research - yes, now that is what it does - but even then it is constrained by the politics of its member nations.

[Malthus]

Yeah, LTC facilities are unfortunately the weak point everywhere. I know there was a spectacular horror show at that one particular Quebec facility, but many facilities in various provinces saw problems.  Everyone was concentrating on flattening the curve so that hospitals did not get swamped. That was accomplished it looks like, thankfully, but it appears not nearly enough attention was paid to LTC facilities, where the majority of deaths occurred.

I am not sure why the other provinces did not implement the same protocols BC created once the infections were found here.  It may be that since BC was the first place infections were found in LTC others thought we were just unlucky.

According to this article, the major step BC has taken was to prohibit care workers from moving from taking multiple jobs at different LTC facilities - and that was only in force recently, because of union and contract issues and most important, staff shortage concerns. So BC is still in the same boat as the other provinces in suffering outbreaks (if so far not having anything as horrific as that particular Quebec case).

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/local/british-columbia/2020/4/12/1_4892968.html

My guess is that the same issues affect other provinces. In all provinces, including BC, there is a distinct sense of shutting the barn door after the horses have left. But that is probably a function of the system itself - the extent of the concern was underestimated, so money was not thrown at it until the problem manifested.

In Ontario, there are a bunch of measures allegedly being taken now, hopefully it will not take weeks to implement them.