TV/Movies Megathread

[11B4V]

Look Who's Back


Holy shit 

[Savonarola]

They Had to See Paris (1929)

Will Rodgers plays an Oklahoma mechanic who strikes it rich when they find oil (black gold, Texas tea) on his land.  His wife wants to improve the prospect of their children and broaden their family's horizons so they go to Paris.  Hilarity ensues as Will runs up against Europe's upper crust, but all is resolved due to homespun wit and good old fashioned American common sense.

The director, Frank Borzage, does a decent job given the primitive nature of sound.  In some extremely unusual direction for the day the camera actually moves and there are some shots done outside a Hollywood studio.  Even so, the film lives or dies depending on whether Will is on screen (or at least the topic of discussion.)  Rodgers had made a number of mediocre silent films; sound made him a star in Hollywood (he was already a star on vaudeville, in radio and as a newspaper columnist at this point.)

[celedhring]

Lawless (2012)

Film about a band of brothers that sell moonshine during prohibition Virginia, and end up squaring off against a corrupt and violent deputy. Now, what jumped out to me if that script is by Nick Cave (yup, that Nick Cave), and the cast is pretty damn amazing (Hardy, Chastain, Oldman, Pearce, and yeah, Leboeuf too). The fact that despite all that I had never heard of the film before put me on guard, though. That said, while the film certainly lacks narrative and visual nerve, is moderately entertaining, and the cast manages to elevate it on occasion. In particular, the film reminded me of how tragic is that Guy Pearce doesn't see more high profile work anymore. Lots of violence, too.

[frunk]

Hmm, referencing Nick Cave led me to this, a Gladiator sequel:

In 2006, Scott stated he and Crowe approached Nick Cave to rewrite the film, but their ideas conflicted with DreamWorks's idea of a spin-off involving Lucius, whom Scott revealed would turn out to be Maximus's son with Lucilla. Scott noted that a tale of corruption in Rome was too complex, whereas Gladiator worked due to its simple drive.[93] In 2009, details of Cave's ultimately-rejected script surfaced on the internet: the script having Maximus being reincarnated by the Roman gods and returned to Rome to defend Christians against persecution; then transported to other important periods in history, including World War II, the Vietnam War, and finally being a general in the modern-day Pentagon. This script for a sequel, however, was rejected as being too far-fetched, and not in keeping with the spirit and theme of the original film.

The idea of Ridley Scott and Russell Crowe approaching Nick Cave for a film rewrite sounds weird.  The results strikes me as quite Cavian though.

[celedhring]

My main disappointment with Lawless is that it's not very Cavian. It's a pretty straightforward tale of botlegging hijinks in the prohibition era.

[Eddie Teach]

S1 of iZombie. Part police procedural, part relationship drama, but better than either of those genres. In this world, zombies retain their humanity as long as they have a steady supply of brains. This makes for more relatable zombie characters and also allows for the "zombiepocalypse" to be something impending rather than something happening, as you slowly see evidence of the zombie population increasing.

S1 of Empire. Very trashy, with a lot of focus on the bland music written for the show, but a guilty pleasure nonetheless.

[11B4V]

Turn: C+

I believe they got Rogers persona pretty good. Tuck traitor anyway. Way off the mark with Semcoe.

[jimmy olsen]

Just watched Ant-Man for the first time. Pretty damn good. I'm all caught up for Civil Wars and have a ticket for a 7:35 showing tomorrow. I'm super pumped!

[viper37]

Turn: C+

I believe they got Rogers persona pretty good. Tuck traitor anyway. Way off the mark with Semcoe.

I don't know about that last part...

In 1778, Simcoe, during a foraging expedition opposed by rebel militia, commanded the attack on Judge William Hancock's house, killing ten American rebels in their sleep and wounding five others. William Hancock was also killed, although he was not with the Americans. The massacre took place at night and with bayonets.

Reported atrocities  [Battle of Crooked Billet]

Almost immediately after the battle, reports surfaced that British and Loyalist troops had committed atrocities, including the murder of prisoners-of-war and setting fire to the American wounded. On May 7, Washington ordered Brigadier General William Maxwell to conduct an inquiry into these allegations so that a report could be made to General Howe.[5] Andrew Long, a justice of the peace in Bucks County, took the depositions of Colonel Watts and four residents who witnessed the battle: Samuel Henry, William Stayner, Thomas Craven and Samuel Erwin. Watts reported "we found the bodies of the dead usid [sic] in a most inhuman & barbarous manner" and that "the most cruel Barbarity that had ever been exercised by any civilised Nation; nay, Savage barbarity in its utmost exertion of cruelty could but equal it."[6]

Lacey's report to Major General John Armstrong further documented the atrocities: "Some of the unfortunate, who fell into the merciless hands of the British, were more cruelly and inhumanely butchered. Some were set on fire with buckwheat straw, and others had their clothes burned on their backs. Some of the surviving sufferers say they saw the enemy set fire to wounded while yet alive, who struggled to put it out but were too weak and expired under the torture. I saw those lying in the buckwheat straw—they made a most melancholy appearance. Others I saw, who, after being wounded with a ball, had received near a dozen wounds with cutlasses and bayonets. I can find as many witnesses to the proof of the cruelties as there were people on the spot, and that was no small number who came as spectators."

And he wrote the first Valentine card to a rebel spy who transmitted information to the Culper spy ring. 

Seems to me it ain't so far fetched.  Just because he was an abolitionist and became of governor of Upper Canada does not mean he was a good guy.  Lots of British officiers committed war crimes against the population and the natives and were later rewarded and honored.  That wasn't really important at the time.

[Valmy]

To be fair we pretty much did the exact same shit to the Tories. And they were mostly poor backwoods folks as there were deep ethnic tensions between the Scots-Irish (who tended to be Tories) and the Anglo-elites (who tended to be Patriots). The war in the South was a brutal atrocity filled disaster for everybody involved. Lots of otherwise "good guys" did very bad things.

[11B4V]

Turn: C+

I believe they got Rogers persona pretty good. Tuck traitor anyway. Way off the mark with Semcoe.

I don't know about that last part...

In 1778, Simcoe, during a foraging expedition opposed by rebel militia, commanded the attack on Judge William Hancock's house, killing ten American rebels in their sleep and wounding five others. William Hancock was also killed, although he was not with the Americans. The massacre took place at night and with bayonets.

Reported atrocities  [Battle of Crooked Billet]

Almost immediately after the battle, reports surfaced that British and Loyalist troops had committed atrocities, including the murder of prisoners-of-war and setting fire to the American wounded. On May 7, Washington ordered Brigadier General William Maxwell to conduct an inquiry into these allegations so that a report could be made to General Howe.[5] Andrew Long, a justice of the peace in Bucks County, took the depositions of Colonel Watts and four residents who witnessed the battle: Samuel Henry, William Stayner, Thomas Craven and Samuel Erwin. Watts reported "we found the bodies of the dead usid [sic] in a most inhuman & barbarous manner" and that "the most cruel Barbarity that had ever been exercised by any civilised Nation; nay, Savage barbarity in its utmost exertion of cruelty could but equal it."[6]

Lacey's report to Major General John Armstrong further documented the atrocities: "Some of the unfortunate, who fell into the merciless hands of the British, were more cruelly and inhumanely butchered. Some were set on fire with buckwheat straw, and others had their clothes burned on their backs. Some of the surviving sufferers say they saw the enemy set fire to wounded while yet alive, who struggled to put it out but were too weak and expired under the torture. I saw those lying in the buckwheat straw—they made a most melancholy appearance. Others I saw, who, after being wounded with a ball, had received near a dozen wounds with cutlasses and bayonets. I can find as many witnesses to the proof of the cruelties as there were people on the spot, and that was no small number who came as spectators."

And he wrote the first Valentine card to a rebel spy who transmitted information to the Culper spy ring. 

Seems to me it ain't so far fetched.  Just because he was an abolitionist and became of governor of Upper Canada does not mean he was a good guy.  Lots of British officiers committed war crimes against the population and the natives and were later rewarded and honored.  That wasn't really important at the time.

You should read more than wiki as your source. I thought languish would have taught you that.

Hancock House

The actual militia present consisted only of a company of about thirty men under Captain Carleton Sheppard. Mawhood's report, of upwards of four hundred militiamen in the vicinity, was in error; this intelligence may have referred to Colonel Elisha Hand's Cumberland County militia that arrived to give assistance to Colonel Benjamin Holmes's Salem County militia after the initial skirmish at Quinton's.17

On approaching the place, two sentries were discovered: two men of the light infantry followed them, and, as they turned about, bayoneted them; the companies rushed in, and each, with proper guides, forced the quarters allotted to it. No resistance being made, the light infantry, who were in reserve, reached Hancock's house by the road, and forced the front door, at the same time that Captain Dunlop, by a more difficult way, entered the back door; as it was very dark, these companies had nearly attacked each other. The surprise was complete, and would have been so, had the whole of the enemy's force been present, but, fortunately for them, they had quitted it the evening before, leaving a detachment of twenty or thirty men, all of whom were killed. Some very unfortunate circumstances happened here. Among the killed was a friend of Government, then a prisoner with the rebels, old Hancock, the owner of the house, and his brother: Major Simcoe had made particular enquiry, and was informed that he did not live at home, since the rebels had occupied the bridge. The information was partly true; he was not there in the day-time, but unfortunately returned home at night: events like these are the real miseries of war.

So far the series has made a Hollywood villain out of him for the sake of the show. It is so over the top with his character seems like the writers didn't even read the book or any reference for that matter. Simcoe has a minor almost negligent play in the book by comparisons of the tv series.

Crooked Billet
The Americans neglected to patrol the roads, as their scouts, instead of going out at two o'clock in the morning, did not stir until daybreak. "The first intimation that Lacey had of the approach of the British was at daylight . . . when they were within 200 yards of his camp. He was still in bed and had barely time to dress, mount his horse and join his men before [the British] were within musket shot of his quarters." A line of defense was immediately formed to meet the dragoons, but shortly thereafter the Queen's Rangers were seen forming in their front and rear. Not knowing the numbers surrounding them, the militia turned around to retreat northeast to the protection of a wood.

The retreat, all the while under constant fire, lasted for two miles. The militia's baggage train followed in their rear. Their flanking parties engaged the British dragoons and mounted infantry in a running fight. The van had just reached the wood when the light infantry under Abercrombie came up, crossed the field, and attacked their left flank. The Queen's Rangers hit their rear upon the right flank. The British dragoons and mounted infantry continued their attack on the militia's front and left flank. The slaughter was horrible, as much of the fighting occurred at close quarters. The result was similar to that which had occurred at Paoli on September 20, 1777. The swords of the dragoons and the musketry of the infantry took a terrible toll. Those militiamen who tried to escape from the British light infantry by turning to the rear ran instead into the fire of the rangers and were cut down. Simcoe sent the provincial dragoons with the rangers to cut off Lacey's baggage train and then to stay and guard it. The militia made a stand in the wood for a time. They were eventually forced out, but continued to beat off repeated attacks. They moved so fast across the open fields that they eventually outstripped the British infantry, leaving only the cavalry to contend with. Finally, they came upon another wood to their left and escaped into it, as the British cavalry could not follow.

Simcoe, galloping ahead of his rangers, summoned them to surrender. The militia, in their terror and confusion, just moved on, seeking only to escape from the death and horror around them. Simcoe was separated from Lacey's force by intervening fences and thick underbrush, and decided to try a bluff. He gave words of command to fire as if he had troops right behind him, but the Americans just crouched down at the word "fire" and continued moving. They were oblivious to everything except the need to escape. They passed into the wood and out of sight. Bloodlust overcame some of the British rank-and-file during the pursuit. Hessian major Baurmeister reported in his journal that "several British were so embittered they burned nine rebels." General Lacey, in his report to his superiors, stated that, "while living, some [of his men] were thrown into buckwheat straw and the straw set on fire." In addition, many were killed or wounded with swords and bayonets. The British claimed between eighty and one hundred of the militia killed and wounded, with fifty-eight taken prisoner. The Americans only admitted to thirty killed and seventeen wounded, which is a high enough figure. They agreed with the British about the fifty-eight militiamen taken prisoner.

The Valentine IIRC was given to Robert Townsends(Culper Jr.) sister. The show depicts Simcoe with an infatuation with Anna Strong. Wrong again AMC.

Simcoe set his headquarters for a time in the Townsend family home. The whole representation of Hewlett is false. Simcoe poisoning Hewletts horse, killing British regulars, when he himself was a captain in the regular army, having later the provincial rank of Major (later Lt Colonel). Utter nonsense.

Simcoe was not captured as depicted in the show and tortured by Talemage. Simcoe was wounded at Brandywine. He was captured much later when he was in command of the Queens Rangers and released/exchanged after a few months..

The transfer of the Queens Rangers is botched. Andre did not give command of the Rangers to Simcoe who also didn't take over from Rogers. In fact it went this way. Rogers>French(reg. army)>Wemyss (reg. army)>Simcoe(reg. army).

[HVC]

Marti's jinxed archer. Seasons been pretty weak.

[Savonarola]

Tom Verlaine and Jimmy Rip Music for Experimental Film (2007)

A series of avant-garde silent films set to ambient guitars by Tom Verlaine and Jimmy Rip.  This works because they chose some of the better short silent films for this and their music isn't excessively weird.  If you have an interest in modern art this is one of the least painful ways to be exposed to the art films of that era.  (In fact Man Ray directed a couple of the films Emak Bakia and L'Étoile de Mer.)

[viper37]

S1 of iZombie. Part police procedural, part relationship drama, but better than either of those genres. In this world, zombies retain their humanity as long as they have a steady supply of brains. This makes for more relatable zombie characters and also allows for the "zombiepocalypse" to be something impending rather than something happening, as you slowly see evidence of the zombie population increasing.

it's predictable and repetitive, but it's damn funny.

[viper37]

You should read more than wiki as your source. I thought languish would have taught you that.

Yes, but it's pretty hard to find decent sources for little battles like that.
Still, your source puts Simcoe in charge, and in his defense, the only thing that can be produced is that he enquired about the possible presence of an ally before killing the soldiers in their sleep, with a bayonnet, as depicted in the show, albeit, in another location.

So far the series has made a Hollywood villain out of him for the sake of the show. It is so over the top with his character seems like the writers didn't even read the book or any reference for that matter. Simcoe has a minor almost negligent play in the book by comparisons of the tv series.

There's enough material in the book to make a movie, maybe two.
I will agree that the portrayal of many British as villains and most (nearly all) Americans as heroes is not historical and I totally concede Valmy's point that both sides committed atrocities.

Simcoe, galloping ahead of his rangers, summoned them to surrender. The militia, in their terror and confusion, just moved on, seeking only to escape from the death and horror around them. Simcoe was separated from Lacey's force by intervening fences and thick underbrush, and decided to try a bluff. He gave words of command to fire as if he had troops right behind him, but the Americans just crouched down at the word "fire" and continued moving. They were oblivious to everything except the need to escape. They passed into the wood and out of sight. Bloodlust overcame some of the British rank-and-file during the pursuit. Hessian major Baurmeister reported in his journal that "several British were so embittered they burned nine rebels." General Lacey, in his report to his superiors, stated that, "while living, some [of his men] were thrown into buckwheat straw and the straw set on fire." In addition, many were killed or wounded with swords and bayonets. The British claimed between eighty and one hundred of the militia killed and wounded, with fifty-eight taken prisoner. The Americans only admitted to thirty killed and seventeen wounded, which is a high enough figure. They agreed with the British about the fifty-eight militiamen taken prisoner.

And before Simcoe could regain control of his troops, 9 were burned alive.  It seems to me that for such a small battle, where he is in command, it's a little far fetched to believe it happened by accident.

The Valentine IIRC was given to Robert Townsends(Culper Jr.) sister. The show depicts Simcoe with an infatuation with Anna Strong. Wrong again AMC.

we were talking about the portrayal of the character, not the specifics.  Is there one tv show or movie made anywhere in the world, produced as entertainment, not for documentary purpose, that is 100% accurate in all its little details?  Quite often, characters are aged or de-aged, even have their gender switched, stories of multiple characters are merged together for the sake of simplicity or

Simcoe set his headquarters for a time in the Townsend family home. The whole representation of Hewlett is false. Simcoe poisoning Hewletts horse, killing British regulars, when he himself was a captain in the regular army, having later the provincial rank of Major (later Lt Colonel). Utter nonsense.

Because no British officer ever committed a crime against another officer in the entire history of the British Empire or because the real Simcoe never did it?

Simcoe was not captured as depicted in the show and tortured by Talemage. Simcoe was wounded at Brandywine. He was captured much later when he was in command of the Queens Rangers and released/exchanged after a few months..

Again, that is specifics.  I do not deny the show has taken many liberties with the real history.  I deny that the show deserve blame for it though.

The transfer of the Queens Rangers is botched. Andre did not give command of the Rangers to Simcoe who also didn't take over from Rogers. In fact it went this way. Rogers>French(reg. army)>Wemyss (reg. army)>Simcoe(reg. army).

Again, if you want to argue about specifics, I suspect that just about every character in the show finds him/herself at the wrong place at the wrong time during the 2-3 seasons so far.  I doubt a tv show could afford, both from a money standpoint and a narrative standpoint to have so many characters as the real ones, even for the smallest of roles, and keep the show interesting.  they don't have 10 seasons in front of them, I suspect this will be the last, maybe one more and that's it.  Even if they stuck to 100% historical facts, there would be less viewership than the Walking dead shows and no guarantee it would attract more viewers.

My argument was about the portrayal of Simcoe, that I find close to the real character as we know it, far from the way Canadians and British describe their officers of both wars as 100% do-gooders war heroes with a whitewash history.