TV/Movies Megathread

[Admiral Yi]

I thought that was Crecy. Did they do that twice?

Maybe Genoese not as smart as their reputation.

I've read it happened at Agincourt.

[Berkut]

Just watched The King.

What about the battle in particular was so egregiously wrong?

English archers planted stakes.
There was no English suicidal ruse charge.
There was no English hidden flank attack.

I chased this down from the sources on Wiki. I remember reading something about this probably 10 or more years ago, the last time I recall reading anything about the battle.

But one other thing I recall is that the actual details of what really happened are pretty hard to really nail down. There aren't good sources, other than the outcome, which seems rather improbable. So a lot of the detail is really historians trying to construct a plausible narrative that makes sense, with some historical sources that are often contradictory, or plainly not very objective. In any case, in regards to there not being a "secret flank attack":

The English on that morning, perceiving that the French made no advances to attack them, refreshed themselves with meat and drink. After calling on the Divine aid against the French, who seemed to despise them, they dislodged from Maisoncelles, and sent some of their light troops in the rear of the town of Agincourt, where, not finding any men‑at-arms, in order to alarm tile French they set fire to a barn and house belonging to the priory of St. George at Hesdin. On the other hand, the king of England dispatched about two hundred archers to the rear of his army, with orders to enter the village of Tramecourt secretly, and to post themselves in a field near the van of the French, there to remain quiet until it should be proper time for them to use their bows.

This is from a maybe primary source, a French governor who wrote about the battle.

Did it happen? I dunno. Maybe, maybe not.

But my point is that there is enough ambiguity about what DID happen to leave a lot of room for creative license.

[crazy canuck]

It's a pity Linda Hamilton's nipples didn't get more roles after T2.

Is there ever a day your misogyny takes a break or this you 24/7?

Really? Huh.

Its cumulative thing.  Once in a while someone has to call bullshit to all his sexist tripe.

[Eddie Teach]

Go back to sleep.

[Berkut]

I could use a nap.

[Grey Fox]

Forgot who gave a plug for Daybreak but thank you.

Starts out looking like a witty parody but turns out to be something quite unique.

Because of this, I watched the first episode.

It got me, I'm into it.

[Oexmelin]

I thought that was Crecy. Did they do that twice?

Maybe Genoese not as smart as their reputation.

I've read it happened at Agincourt.

IIRC, there are two accounts (on the grand total of 28 surviving contemporary or near-contemporary accounts) that mention crossbowmen at Agincourt - one that mentions they were kept at the back, and so could no longer fire once the melee was engaged. The other, saying they were even dismissed from the battle at the start, because they were not necessary.

[Valmy]

Yeah but they were not Genoese, the Genoese mercenaries were at Crecy I am pretty sure.

[Oexmelin]

Yeah but they were not Genoese, the Genoese mercenaries were at Crecy I am pretty sure.

Yes, Genoese were at Crecy. And probably also in Agincourt (they were present at the siege of Harfleur), and we find a bunch of Genoese being ransomed in the months that followed Agincourt.

[Valmy]

Ok I stand corrected then.

[Habbaku]

Mercenaries (many Italian, German, and Scots) are all over the place during the Hundred Years War, so I would be shocked not to have them be found at Agincourt as well.

The immediate aftermath of the Hundred Years War saw Charles VII and Louis XI (Dauphin at the time) struggling to contend with tens of thousands of mercenaries and former soldiers roaming the land, to give an idea of scale.

[Valmy]

Yeah but in the 14th century the Genoese crossbowmen had this reputation as being the best around and Phillip VI had hired a whole crew of them and famously they got rode over by the charge at Crecy which fucked everything up.

I didn't remember the Genoese still being such a big deal by the 15th century nor that a similar incident took place between the French cavalry and archers.

But hey there are so many similarities between Crecy, Poitiers, and Agincourt that they all sort of mold together

[crazy canuck]

Forgot who gave a plug for Daybreak but thank you.

Starts out looking like a witty parody but turns out to be something quite unique.

Because of this, I watched the first episode.

It got me, I'm into it.

[Sheilbh]

Jonathan Sumption (Hundred Years War historian)

And, until recently Supreme Court judge.

Shakespeare was well aware of all this. The essential facts are all in Holinshed. But he suppressed them in order to make his play a purely English story, the king's triumph an English triumph, the fruit of English courage.

He thereby missed a whole dimension of this great human tragedy. The truth would have been stranger than the fiction, but it would also, ironically, have been better: a very different drama, but certainly one worthy of Shakespeare.

I disagree with this. The really interesting thing about Henry V is all of that is true and it's an ultra patriotic play now. But it only became popular during the Napoleonic wars (and ever since), until then it was, with King John, I think the least performed play.

Shakespeare's biggest hit in those years were the Henry IV plays. The symbol of Englishness was Falstaff and taken together the Henry plays aren't about purely patriotic, English courage. It's the rise of Darth Vader.

[viper37]

Yeah, in what way was Normal rule an improvement for anyone other than the Normans? 

they set aside large parts of England as Royal forests, ancestor of our modern protected areas, where hunting and logging was prohibited to most.  In a sense, they were environmentalist rulers before their time.   



Seriously, Norman conquest brought the end of slavery, as their feodal system and the Church's opposition to slavery made it possible to eliminate it from England.
The idea of "Norman yoke" apparently comes from the 17th century.