TV/Movies Megathread

[Josquius]

I dunno what will be in the movie of course, but the trailer features a brief glimpse of some US military types freaking out that if they lose at Midway, the US Pacific coast will be lost!   

It features a LT talking in such terms to his wife/girlfriend.  I don't get why people are focusing on that, as though showing one person who misunderstood the battle's strategic significance ruins the movie.

Now, it may prove that that view is the one the director wants the audience to come away with, but we can't conclude that from one line in a trailer.   

That was the attitude of the time right?
The US was worse than the Brits with sealion for its people's belief that the Japanese were going to invade ANY MINUTE.
Could be quite nice if the film does include that but also makes a point of highlighting this was just silly.

[Sophie Scholl]

I dunno what will be in the movie of course, but the trailer features a brief glimpse of some US military types freaking out that if they lose at Midway, the US Pacific coast will be lost!   

It features a LT talking in such terms to his wife/girlfriend.  I don't get why people are focusing on that, as though showing one person who misunderstood the battle's strategic significance ruins the movie.

Now, it may prove that that view is the one the director wants the audience to come away with, but we can't conclude that from one line in a trailer.   

Was it a typical mindset at the time?  I'm not big on World War II and especially not in the Pacific.  Did those on the homefront on the West Coast and those in the Pacific Fleet not at higher levels of command/access to intelligence view it as balancing on a knife's edge and a loss would lead to invasion of the US?

[Valmy]

Surely people would not know about where a battle was being fought until it was reported after the fact.

However there was plenty of paranoia about a Japanese invasion generally should the war go badly in the Pacific.

[Malthus]

I dunno what will be in the movie of course, but the trailer features a brief glimpse of some US military types freaking out that if they lose at Midway, the US Pacific coast will be lost!   

It features a LT talking in such terms to his wife/girlfriend.  I don't get why people are focusing on that, as though showing one person who misunderstood the battle's strategic significance ruins the movie.

Now, it may prove that that view is the one the director wants the audience to come away with, but we can't conclude that from one line in a trailer.   

Was it a typical mindset at the time?  I'm not big on World War II and especially not in the Pacific.  Did those on the homefront on the West Coast and those in the Pacific Fleet not at higher levels of command/access to intelligence view it as balancing on a knife's edge and a loss would lead to invasion of the US?

Hey, the Japanese did invade the US. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_campaign

... in one of the most pointless invasions ever, leading to the Allies eventually throwing them out (allegedly, one of the reasons for the invasion was to create a diversion for the Midway campaign). The main effect of the invasion was to do some serious harm to the local Innuit. The Allies benefitted by recovering a Zero for testing.

[grumbler]

That was the attitude of the time right?
The US was worse than the Brits with sealion for its people's belief that the Japanese were going to invade ANY MINUTE.
Could be quite nice if the film does include that but also makes a point of highlighting this was just silly.

If what you say is true about June, 1942, the authoritative history books didn't record it.  There certainly was a panic in Dec 1941 on the West Coast, but it only lasted a couple of days.

Maybe you have better sources than the historians, though.

[The Minsky Moment]

Was it a typical mindset at the time? 

That's what I learned from Spielberg and Belushi

[grumbler]

Was it a typical mindset at the time?  I'm not big on World War II and especially not in the Pacific.  Did those on the homefront on the West Coast and those in the Pacific Fleet not at higher levels of command/access to intelligence view it as balancing on a knife's edge and a loss would lead to invasion of the US?

Those in the home front didn't know anything about it.  The US operation against the Japanese was predicated on surprise, so the USN didn't advertise that the Japanese were going to attack Midway and the US carriers were going to oppose them.

As for those fighting the Japanese and getting sailing orders, I think that the pilots, at least (bar the Devastator pilots, who were plenty worried about their kit) were quite confident.  John B. Lundstrum's excellent The First Team covers this period from the POV of the USN pilots.

[The Minsky Moment]

Hey, the Japanese did invade the US. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_campaign

... in one of the most pointless invasions ever, leading to the Allies eventually throwing them out (allegedly, one of the reasons for the invasion was to create a diversion for the Midway campaign). The main effect of the invasion was to do some serious harm to the local Innuit. The Allies benefitted by recovering a Zero for testing.

That invasion gets some discussion in the Shattered Sword book, quite critical.

[grumbler]

Hey, the Japanese did invade the US. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_campaign

... in one of the most pointless invasions ever, leading to the Allies eventually throwing them out (allegedly, one of the reasons for the invasion was to create a diversion for the Midway campaign). The main effect of the invasion was to do some serious harm to the local Innuit. The Allies benefitted by recovering a Zero for testing.

A lot of the original historiography made the claim that the Aleutians Campaign was a diversionary operation for Operation MI, but later studies that included Japanese sources disproved that claim.  In fact, Yamamoto didn't want to conduct Operation AL at all, but was forced into it by the IJN General Staff as a cost of getting their approval for MI.

[Malthus]

I doubt anyone in the US military seriously thought in terms of any possible outcome of the fleet battles of 1942 leading to an actual Japanese invasion of continental US.

Shipping a Japanese army capable of defeating US resistance across the Pacific would, to put it mildly, be a significant logistical feat, even if the Pacific Fleet was destroyed; and the Japanese army was pretty busy elsewhere at the time. 

[Malthus]

Hey, the Japanese did invade the US. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_campaign

... in one of the most pointless invasions ever, leading to the Allies eventually throwing them out (allegedly, one of the reasons for the invasion was to create a diversion for the Midway campaign). The main effect of the invasion was to do some serious harm to the local Innuit. The Allies benefitted by recovering a Zero for testing.

A lot of the original historiography made the claim that the Aleutians Campaign was a diversionary operation for Operation MI, but later studies that included Japanese sources disproved that claim.  In fact, Yamamoto didn't want to conduct Operation AL at all, but was forced into it by the IJN General Staff as a cost of getting their approval for MI.

I did not know that.

Aside from a diversion, of what earthly use did the Staff think landing armies on remote Aleutian islands would be?

[grumbler]

I doubt anyone in the US military seriously thought in terms of any possible outcome of the fleet battles of 1942 leading to an actual Japanese invasion of continental US.

Shipping a Japanese army capable of defeating US resistance across the Pacific would, to put it mildly, be a significant logistical feat, even if the Pacific Fleet was destroyed; and the Japanese army was pretty busy elsewhere at the time.

Not to mention that the Japanese sucked at opposed landings.  Shattered Sword has a fascinating appendix on what would likely have happened had the Japanese attempted a landing at Midway in June 1942.  Short version: two thousand Japanese bodies rolling in the surf underneath an American flag.

[The Minsky Moment]

Aside from a diversion, of what earthly use did the Staff think landing armies on remote Aleutian islands would be?

As the crow (or the bomber) flies, Attu and Kiska are closer to Japan then Midway Island.

[Malthus]

Aside from a diversion, of what earthly use did the Staff think landing armies on remote Aleutian islands would be?

As the crow (or the bomber) flies, Attu and Kiska are closer to Japan then Midway Island.

I don't understand why the Japanese thought landing there made strategic sense.

[Razgovory]

I doubt anyone in the US military seriously thought in terms of any possible outcome of the fleet battles of 1942 leading to an actual Japanese invasion of continental US.

Shipping a Japanese army capable of defeating US resistance across the Pacific would, to put it mildly, be a significant logistical feat, even if the Pacific Fleet was destroyed; and the Japanese army was pretty busy elsewhere at the time.

The Japanese strategy was to get the US to quite the war as soon as possible.  Ideally before 1940.  It wasn't a good strategy.