TV/Movies Megathread

[Berkut]

The problem is that even if it is told according to the accepted "historical" *mythology* of Midway, that will be largely wrong.

Care to elaborate on that?  If you do, you might do so a new thread.

Just the American mythology of a bunch of plucky aviators outnumbered and desperately trying to stop the Japanese from invading Hawaii, and how Midway was some kind of last, desperate stand against the invincible Japanese Navy that had never been beat until then ever.

[dps]

The problem is that even if it is told according to the accepted "historical" *mythology* of Midway, that will be largely wrong.

Care to elaborate on that?  If you do, you might do so a new thread.

Just the American mythology of a bunch of plucky aviators outnumbered and desperately trying to stop the Japanese from invading Hawaii, and how Midway was some kind of last, desperate stand against the invincible Japanese Navy that had never been beat until then ever.

Well, we were kind of outnumbered, but we offset that by having a huge intel advantage.  And even if the Japanese had won at Midway, they still would have lost the war, so OK.

[Valmy]

Man this conversation makes me want to watch this amazing video again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd8_vO5zrjo&t=1244s

[dps]

Well, crap.  Now I had to subscribe to the channel to wait for part 2.

[Liep]

Barry. I'm at S2E5 it's both the most ridiculous and hilarious episode of what has so far been a brilliant show.

[Malthus]

It was never a riot to beign with - the term riot was just used as a way to let a bunch of white people murder a bunch of black people and have a fig leaf of legal cover.

"Them coloreds was rioting, and we were forced to shoot them in self defense!"

I mean they terrorized the black community in a way that very much resembled a riot. Hordes of random private citizens burning and lynching through a town.

Yeah, it is kind of ironic. We call it a "riot" now to refer to the actions of the white community just murdering a bunch of blacks.

But it was called a riot then as a way of claiming that it was just a generally chaotic riot including black people, in which a bunch of black people died. It suggests that they were involved in the actual rioting, rather than being victims of a riot.

That is why I kind of object to using the term now to describe it - it is suggestive (albeit certainly unintentionally so) of the original whitewash of the entire thing.

"Did you hear about all those poor black people killed in Oklahoma??!?!?

Yeah, I heard there was a race riot!

Oh, that is just so unfortunate! Such violence is terrible!"

As opposed to what actually happened:

"Hey did you hear that a bunch of white people burned down a black neighborhood and murdered a few hundred people?"

Anyway, I am sure even then there were fine people on both sides.

A "pogrom" is the Russian-derived term for this sort of thing (generally, but in modern use not necessarily, with Jews as the victims). Much better as a description than "riot", which implies two equally-rioting sides.

[Malthus]

The problem is that even if it is told according to the accepted "historical" *mythology* of Midway, that will be largely wrong.

Care to elaborate on that?  If you do, you might do so a new thread.

Just the American mythology of a bunch of plucky aviators outnumbered and desperately trying to stop the Japanese from invading Hawaii, and how Midway was some kind of last, desperate stand against the invincible Japanese Navy that had never been beat until then ever.

I dunno what will be in the movie of course, but the trailer features a brief glimpse of some US military types freaking out that if they lose at Midway, the US Pacific coast will be lost! 

[Habbaku]

[Tamas]

I hope they will have British reinforcements come in and save the day. It sounded earlier like most of you guys would be perfectly ok with such a thing.

[celedhring]

 

Tamas will never forgive us for Peaky Blinders.

[Berkut]

Man this conversation makes me want to watch this amazing video again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd8_vO5zrjo&t=1244s

It is really well done.

If anyone likes to read military history, the youtube video is based primarily on this book:

Parshall, Jonathan B.; Tully, Anthony P.: Shattered Sword. The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway. Potomac Books: United States, 2007 : p. 170

Which is just a fantastic book about Midway, and a key to understanding the battle beyond the standard history. And better yet, it is an incredibly readable history as well.

[grumbler]

I dunno what will be in the movie of course, but the trailer features a brief glimpse of some US military types freaking out that if they lose at Midway, the US Pacific coast will be lost!   

It features a LT talking in such terms to his wife/girlfriend.  I don't get why people are focusing on that, as though showing one person who misunderstood the battle's strategic significance ruins the movie.

Now, it may prove that that view is the one the director wants the audience to come away with, but we can't conclude that from one line in a trailer.   

[Malthus]

I dunno what will be in the movie of course, but the trailer features a brief glimpse of some US military types freaking out that if they lose at Midway, the US Pacific coast will be lost!   

It features a LT talking in such terms to his wife/girlfriend.  I don't get why people are focusing on that, as though showing one person who misunderstood the battle's strategic significance ruins the movie.

Now, it may prove that that view is the one the director wants the audience to come away with, but we can't conclude that from one line in a trailer.   

Hence prefacing my comment by saying "I dunno what will be in the movie of course ...".

I have no idea if anyone else is "focusing on that", not having read anything but this thread on the subject. Why did I? Because it was funny.

Now, it is possible that this scene was included in the trailer to show that some folks in the US were succumbing to hysteria ... or it is possible the scene was included to show the audience how damned important the battle was, because the outcome of losing was so terrible.

No idea which, but if I had to bet, it would be on the latter.

[Eddie Teach]

A "pogrom" is the Russian-derived term for this sort of thing (generally, but in modern use not necessarily, with Jews as the victims). Much better as a description than "riot", which implies two equally-rioting sides.

It doesn't imply that, most riots don't have sides at all.

[Malthus]

A "pogrom" is the Russian-derived term for this sort of thing (generally, but in modern use not necessarily, with Jews as the victims). Much better as a description than "riot", which implies two equally-rioting sides.

It doesn't imply that, most riots don't have sides at all.

A "race riot" - the assumption on the part of the listener being that members of two "races" are fighting against each other.

A "pogrom" on the other hand has a very different connotation.