Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters

[HisMajestyBOB]

Alright. I guess Japan needs to build more boats then.

Japan recently launched this aircraft carrier helicopter destroyer

They've got another one in construction and a third that's like 1/3rd bigger on the drawing board.

They've also got a good song-and-dance routine. And lots of seamen.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

"China's rapidly growing naval power?"  WTF?  China's surface fleet has been near 70 ships for a decade, and was twice that size twenty years ago.  Submarine force levels have been about the same: about 100 submarines 20 years ago, cut to about 55 modern models ten years ago, and maintained at that level since.  the force is expected to grow to 10 or 12 nukes over time, but those nukes will likely replace diesel boats in the OOB.

Methinks someone is crying wolf, here.

Hull counts are staying the same, but capabilities are increasing.  The Chinese have a strong AAW capability now, are close to commissioning their first aircraft carrier, and have demonstrated an ability to project power well outside east Asia.  That's a rapid growth from where they were 20 years ago.

[grumbler]

Hull counts are staying the same, but capabilities are increasing.  The Chinese have a strong AAW capability now, are close to commissioning their first aircraft carrier, and have demonstrated an ability to project power well outside east Asia.  That's a rapid growth from where they were 20 years ago.

The Chinese are modernizing, like everybody else.  What is surprising is that they really are not increasing relative capabilities.  They are a status quo power.

[CountDeMoney]

It's their development in diesel boat modernization as well as SSMs and ASMs that concerns me about China.  They still can't do shit over the horizon from the beach.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

The Chinese are modernizing, like everybody else.  What is surprising is that they really are not increasing relative capabilities.  They are a status quo power.

I get the impression, mainly from Proceedings articles on China, that some people are surprised China was able to pull off a modernization like this at all and that the relative gap hasn't grown larger.

The Chinese appear to be running into a learning curve in building and maintaining a modern navy.  Their modern destroyers and frigates have each gone through several iterations, and they have not yet built more than four ships of the same iteration.  I suspect the Chinese still have some architecture and systems integration issues with their modern designs.

By the way, where did your number for Chinese nuke boats come from?  My understanding is they only have 5 SSNs, with no current plans to build more of the Shang class boats or build a follow-on class in the near future.  I can only get your numbers if I add the boomers.

[Palisadoes]

Well that's it really... they might be able to put out some new ships, but it takes time to get good designs, not to mention getting the doctrines and training all set out right. It'll be a few years before China has an effective fleet.

[Razgovory]

Maybe they don't want a fleet.  Perhaps they see it as unnecessarily belligerent.  Besides if they had a big fleet sooner or later someone will ask them to do something with it.  Like chase down pirates or something.

[grumbler]

By the way, where did your number for Chinese nuke boats come from?  My understanding is they only have 5 SSNs, with no current plans to build more of the Shang class boats or build a follow-on class in the near future.  I can only get your numbers if I add the boomers.

Yes, the Chinese are building nuclear boomers.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Yes, the Chinese are building nuclear boomers.

I know, but where I got confused in your statement is you said, "the force is expected to grow to 10 or 12 nukes over time, but those nukes will likely replace diesel boats in the OOB."  The Jin class boats are not replacing diesel boats.