Obama to double down if Brown wins.

[Caliga]

Fate, have you ever considered toning it down a notch?

Fate Rule.

[Admiral Yi]

The weird thing about the "Massachusetts voters angry about health care reform" story line is that Massachusetts already has universal coverage and in many ways was the model for the national bill.

Another thing that struck me is (AFAIK) the Massachusetts law doesn't include a public option.  If it wasn't an issue then, why did it suddenly become such an all-consuming issue now?

[Faeelin]

Anger over the current Health care bill was one of the leading, or lead issue, for many Mass voters according to this poll. From focus groups I've seen, which have included mainly Dems, that would appear to be true, plus that people are very angry at how govt has been running, spending, not listening, deficits.

So in other words, if the Democrats concentrate on jobs like they want, they'll just stoke more anger about the deficit. If they slash spending, they lengthen the recession.

Whee!

[KRonn]

The weird thing about the "Massachusetts voters angry about health care reform" story line is that Massachusetts already has universal coverage and in many ways was the model for the national bill.

Another thing that struck me is (AFAIK) the Massachusetts law doesn't include a public option.  If it wasn't an issue then, why did it suddenly become such an all-consuming issue now?

Arguments I've heard focus on that the Mass plan isn't the big plan like the Federal bill, and one problem with the Mass plan is it costs more than expected, partly because not enough was done to address costs. Similar to the problems the Fed plan will face. Also that the state already has a plan so people don't want to pay into a massive Federal plan on top of the state plan. They'd rather see states set up plans that works for each state instead of a one size fits all Federal approach. And probably the biggest issue is how the legislation was done for the Federal bill, aside from dissatisfaction with the bill itself, which has people pretty angry. Even so, nearly half support the Federal bill but a slight majority don't, from the polls I've seen.

[KRonn]

Anger over the current Health care bill was one of the leading, or lead issue, for many Mass voters according to this poll. From focus groups I've seen, which have included mainly Dems, that would appear to be true, plus that people are very angry at how govt has been running, spending, not listening, deficits.

So in other words, if the Democrats concentrate on jobs like they want, they'll just stoke more anger about the deficit. If they slash spending, they lengthen the recession.

Whee!

Apparently lots of people don't feel that the stimulus plans have focused on jobs, and that has cause muched anger. Again, this is a Democrat party state bastion and people here are angry. I can't imagine how it is in Republican states.

[Faeelin]

Apparently lots of people don't feel that the stimulus plans have focused on jobs, and that has cause muched anger. Again, this is a Democrat party state bastion and people here are angry. I can't imagine how it is in Republican states.

I get that. I'm just not sure what the Democrats and do. What did they think the Stimulus money did, fire the money into the sun?

[KRonn]

Apparently lots of people don't feel that the stimulus plans have focused on jobs, and that has cause muched anger. Again, this is a Democrat party state bastion and people here are angry. I can't imagine how it is in Republican states.

I get that. I'm just not sure what the Democrats and do. What did they think the Stimulus money did, fire the money into the sun?

Well, there have been criticisms about some parts of the stimulus bills for a while, those concerns aren't anything new.

[grumbler]

I get that. I'm just not sure what the Democrats and do. What did they think the Stimulus money did, fire the money into the sun?

Bit of gibberish at the start there that I don't get, but the feeling seems to be that the stimulus bill fired the money into multi-million-dollar executive bonuses.

[Sheilbh]

The problem is Democratic leadership.  It takes a lot more leadership to herd cats than to herd sheep.

This is true.  There is something very unique to the American system about the importance of the individual politician.

Agree, though, that Bush accomplished little that was controversial via legislation - his "leadership" was to pretend the Constitution didn't exist and issue Executive Orders as fiats to accomplish the controversial.

Let's not stop at Bush.  The last major domestic piece of legislation was probably welfare reform.  Prior to that Reagan's tax cuts or the Clean Air Act.  At that rate you should solve paying for Social Security some time next century

Another thing that struck me is (AFAIK) the Massachusetts law doesn't include a public option.  If it wasn't an issue then, why did it suddenly become such an all-consuming issue now?

It wasn't an issue in the primaries or in the general election.  Which is perhaps why it became a big issue now.  Everything else had been talked about.

Arguments I've heard focus on that the Mass plan isn't the big plan like the Federal bill, and one problem with the Mass plan is it costs more than expected, partly because not enough was done to address costs. Similar to the problems the Fed plan will face.

The MA plan is very similar to the Senate bill.  The Senate bill also contained a fair few cost-containment measures that I think would have worked very well (for Medicare as well).

Apparently lots of people don't feel that the stimulus plans have focused on jobs, and that has cause muched anger.

Well it depends what you mean really.  It's plugged a lot of holes in state budgets - now if that hadn't have happened then I think it's impossible to imagine the sort of budget cuts states would have needed without job losses.  But another part of the stimulus was a tax cut which won't create jobs - certainly not in the short term or as well as spending the money - but that was politically necessary to get those few Republican votes, though it's a shame.

Bit of gibberish at the start there that I don't get, but the feeling seems to be that the stimulus bill fired the money into multi-million-dollar executive bonuses.

Surely you mean TARP and the bailout?

[MadImmortalMan]

There be blood in the water, mateys. The guns have come out for Harry Reid around here, and every Republican with any name recognition is jumping in the race to see who gets to take him on. Ads are already running full force. Buckle up.

[Caliga]

There be blood in the water, mateys. The guns have come out for Harry Reid around here, and every Republican with any name recognition is jumping in the race to see who gets to take him on. Ads are already running full force. Buckle up.

If you could cast your vote against Reid, I'd appreciate it. 

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally the more I read and see of Brown (I sort-of ignored this on my back-burner for a while) the more I like him.  I think he's got real star quality.  He's no Huck but he's very, very good.

[DGuller]

Watching the movie "Casino" gave me a newfound respect for Reid.  It takes balls to take on the mafia, especially when faced with constant death threats.

[grumbler]

Surely you mean TARP and the bailout?

No, because most people don't draw those kinds of distinctions.  They just see the Federal government spending hundreds of billions, and the rescued bank execs awarding themselves tens of billions in bonuses, and get this idea that the bonuses are coming from the government expenditures.  TARP, stimulus, and bailout programs are all rolled into one big "way too much money is being given away to everyone but me" idea.

[grumbler]

There be blood in the water, mateys. The guns have come out for Harry Reid around here, and every Republican with any name recognition is jumping in the race to see who gets to take him on. Ads are already running full force. Buckle up.

Defeating Reid would be a real mistake on the part of the Republicans!