U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes

[dps]

I certainly sympathize with this POV. I merely point out that folks get riled up over symbolism and so, to the extent it can do us harm, feeding them ammunition isn't a particularly good idea. It isn't like we are going to compromise our own values by *not* having semi-secret religious codes on our military hardware.

On the contrary, to the extent that these scopes are being purchased as part of federal procurement program, it is inconsistent with American values.

Bullshit.  The government isn't buying the company's products to support the religious beliefs of the company's ownership. 

As a Christian, yeah, I find this a bit problematic, to say the least, but I find the idea that allowing even this mere hint of religion into the public sphere is somehow in violation of the Constitution even more offensive.

I thought the point of the scopes was to feed them ammunition? 

No, the point of the scopes is to aim the weapons better. 

The point of magazines is to feed them ammunition.


























































Get it?  Like the Danish magazine the Islamists got so up in arms (literally) over?  Nyuck, nyuck. 

[dps]

I remember, when they were changing our utility uniform, to include new no-polish suede boots, there was a big stink created when it was speculated those boots were to be made of pigskin.

If we're going to let them into NATO, it doesn't seem fair to deny the Poles western footwear technology.  I don't think they'd care what the boots are made of.  BTW, the "p" in "Polish" should be capitalized, even when it follows a dash.

[Razgovory]

Can't agree with JR here.  I honestly don't see this as proselytizing anymore then a Jupiter missile is convert people to Roman paganism.  One thing that should be recalled is that besides being a religious text the bible is also literature.  I honestly wouldn't have cared if they wrote lines from Koran or Vedas on a gun.  It would be better if the lines they chose were a bit snappier, but that's just me.

[Viking]

Can't agree with JR here.  I honestly don't see this as proselytizing anymore then a Jupiter missile is convert people to Roman paganism.  One thing that should be recalled is that besides being a religious text the bible is also literature.  I honestly wouldn't have cared if they wrote lines from Koran or Vedas on a gun.  It would be better if the lines they chose were a bit snappier, but that's just me.

I am become Shiva, the destroyer of worlds. Sux to be nipponese.

[Razgovory]

Can't agree with JR here.  I honestly don't see this as proselytizing anymore then a Jupiter missile is convert people to Roman paganism.  One thing that should be recalled is that besides being a religious text the bible is also literature.  I honestly wouldn't have cared if they wrote lines from Koran or Vedas on a gun.  It would be better if the lines they chose were a bit snappier, but that's just me.

I am become Shiva, the destroyer of worlds. Sux to be nipponese.

Exactly.

[garbon]

I am become Shiva, the destroyer of worlds. Sux to be nipponese.

I'm Kali.

[Malthus]

Thing is, I don't think the British actually used this pig-cow fat.  Muslims said it was pig fat and Hindus said it was cow fat.  It seems unlikely that it would contain both.

It was greased with "tallow", the actual origins of which the British could not care less about. Saying that it could not be made of both beef and pork fat is like saying that sausage can't be made of both tits and lips.

[The Minsky Moment]

It is true that many American Christians abide by dietary restrictions and many if not all enter into and respect contracts.  Neither of these things related to the problem I mentioned.

And I am agreeing with you.  The return of Christianity to its pagan roots, with just the patina of Christian jargon, is distressing.  There are already so many religions which are just a batch of crude superstitions and pagan rituals about not farming every nth year and unclean foods that another is absolutely unneeded.

Really, I am unaware of any such religions.  Perhaps you can enumerate them?

Also I was not aware that the ancient practice about allowing farmland to go periodically fallow was a "pagan ritual".  I thought it was just sensible agrarian practice.  Perhaps you can enlighten.

[Berkut]

grumbler, I don't think Teh Jews appreciate your mocking of their pagan faith!

[The Minsky Moment]

Bullshit.  The government isn't buying the company's products to support the religious beliefs of the company's ownership. 

As a Christian, yeah, I find this a bit problematic, to say the least, but I find the idea that allowing even this mere hint of religion into the public sphere is somehow in violation of the Constitution even more offensive.

The government's subjective motive is irrelevant - unless the government is entirely unaware of what is going on.  All that is relevant is the fact that the government is purchasing equipment that disseminates (and is designed by the manufacturer to disseminate) a religious message.

Is it the most serious First Amendment violation in American history? Far from it - but it is still a violation.

[Malthus]

Books on the topic, like Kaye (p. 381) and Hibbert (p.53) point out that no pig fat was ever used, and little beef fat (and even that intended only for British units) as sheep's fat was cheaper than either.

That is not what I read. Way I heard it, the cartridges were greased with "tallow", which did not have any one definitive origin (as the Brits did not care what species of animal provided the fat). Pigs, sheep, cows - all were used to make "tallow".

Naturally, the Brits had no particular notion to "break caste". They were simply uncaring as to the nature of the fat they used. Neither do the Americans in this case have any notion to pose as "Crusaders".

Further, they point out that the regiments where the revolt began had not received any kind of Enfield ammuniition with any greasing at all.  The troops had oiled the cartridges themselves, and then complained that the papers was made with pig and cow fat 9which was, of course, not only untrue but impossible).

This was an option made available to some troops (but not others) once the protests started. It is irrelevant that the troops had not yet been issued the cartridges.

it when your opinions become "most certainly... the case"!    I don not think the rebellion could have been avoided by 1857, when the rifle issue erupted.  By that time, the sepoys were too convinced that the British meant to "Christianize" India, and i am not sure they were wrong.

This is typical ex-post thinking. Sure, by that moment in 1857, it may (or may not) have been the case that a widespread rebellion costing thousands of lives could not have been prevented.

The $64,000 question is - do you really think that we are, vis. the Muslim world, in the same position as the Brits in 1857? Are you of the opinion that a widespread war in which our various Muslim allies worldwide turn against us is now inevitable, such that no gestures we could make would make any difference?

I am not of that opinion. I say we are more like the Brits a decade or two before the rebellion. There is still plenty we can do to strengthen our hand with the uncommitted (or to further piss them off).

Your position is the equivalent of saying that the Brits should not have cared about pig and cow tallow issued to Sepoys in 1847, or 1837, should have issued it to them anyway, because those damn sepoys just protest everything, so we have nothing to lose.

So I guess what i am saying is that it is my opinion that what you consider "most certainly not the case" was, in fact, the case.  Pretty much everything the British did to allay sepoy concerns was seen as dissembling but the sepoys, and once you reach that state further efforts are almost certainly fruitless, because they cannot be seen for what they are.

You are of the opinion we are in that state vis. the world's Muslims? I'm not.

I dunno to whom this is addressed.  Whoever is arguing that the revolt was a good thing for the Brits probably has not done much reading about it.

That being the case it would seem to me a good idea to learn from history rather than repeating it.

[The Minsky Moment]

grumbler, I don't think Teh Jews appreciate your mocking of their pagan faith!

Teh Jews are clever sorts of people - we expect folks that want to mock our faith to know enough about it to come up with much better examples than mandatory crop rotation.   

I am more concerned about grumbler missing the point.  The point is not that many people calling themselves Christian are superstitutious as opposed to others who actually practice Christianity (and who may also be superstitious for different reasons).  The point is the spectacle of people aggressively pushing "Christianity" and boasting of their "Christian" values when in fact they are promoting messages and values opposed to Christian doctrine.

[Malthus]

grumbler, I don't think Teh Jews appreciate your mocking of their pagan faith!

We Jews have been mocked by the best, so we don't settle for cheap imitations. 

[grumbler]

Really, I am unaware of any such religions.  Perhaps you can enumerate them?

Alas, I cannot.  They are too many.

Also I was not aware that the ancient practice about allowing farmland to go periodically fallow was a "pagan ritual".  I thought it was just sensible agrarian practice.  Perhaps you can enlighten.

Allowing some farmland to lie fallow in order to allow it to recover from the depletion of nutrients is a sensible modern agricultural practice.  Allowing all of the land to lie fallow for, say, every seventh year because seven was a sacred number and one's religious taboos forbade farming in taboo years is not  sensible.

But I suspect you knew this.

[grumbler]

grumbler, I don't think Teh Jews appreciate your mocking of their pagan faith!

To point out that superstitions all look the same to someone not subject to them is not mocking, it is merely observing.  I think Judaism is as sensible, and as senseless, as Mormonism or Tibetan Buddhism.

If Jews think that they are being referenced when one talks about superstitions, I am sorry (though it is amusing to hear them talk about other people's beliefs as "superstitions").

To other sheep in the flock, each sheep probably does look distinctive.  To me, they all look like sheep.