[Gay] Lesbians parents better at raising children

[Martinus]

Now I don't agree with everything here.  Personally I think that homosexuality fits the criteria of mental illness but a fiat decision in the 1970's was made to declassify it as such, (though other paraphilia such as sexual preference for children or goats or dead people or what ever still remain),  but this is mainstream psychology.

Please die already.

[Malthus]

How is this question relevant? After all we are talking about proportions

I am talking about proportions as well.  Children per woman.  Which sort of, as in one single, woman is going to have more children.  It just seems logical to me that if a straight woman is going to have 2.3 children and a Lesbian is going to have 1.8 (totally made up numbers) then that suggests a high number of unwanted children per woman.  I mean unless getting pregnant accidentally is something more prevalent in lesbians...

My point is that it is not true that gay parents are necessarily going to have a higher proportion of "planned" children than straight parents

Didn't you just say they were in fact planned children based on the gay persons desire to have children to prove themselves straight?  Is that really the same sort of thing as an accidental pregnancy?  Straight people have planned children for bad reasons all the time as well...planning to have a baby for a bad reason is not the same as unexpected pregnancy.

Or are you suggesting gay people do not want to have children but have them accidentally out of some sort of deep psychosis they are not aware of?

I am confused.

I think he's suggesting it's a reason, but not one conducive to self-selection for good parenting skills.

He's probably right, but in terms of purportions I very strongly doubt it outweighs the significance of straight women having totally unplanned pregnancies.

That is, if you were to draw a pie chart listing average "reasons for having a child", the lesbians' would have a larger slice labelled "good reasons" than a straight woman - in spite of the fact that there will be a slice on the lesbian chart labelled "have kids to prove hetero-ness". The slice labelled "have kids because careless" will be on both charts (some lesbian women will have done so before comming out), but the hetero one will be much, much larger - it would easily swallow up both its equivalent on the lesbian chart plus the "have kids to prove hetero-ness" one, since only some lesbians have a straight sexual history at all.

[Martinus]

Seems to me the latter would be a torrent and the former a trickle, as it were.

I do not have statistics handy but I read that actually it's if not the opposite, then at least pretty equal, at least in terms of proportions (and not absolute numbers).

[Valmy]

Well I meant "unplanned" in that they aren't really planned in the sense of there being some conscious thought about wanting a kid to raise - but rather just wanting to impregnate/be impregnated by someone. I explained that in my previous post.

Essentially, they "want" children for immature reasons and as such are no better than people who have children "by accident".

And yes, gays and lesbians in deep denial can be seen to be suffering from a deep psychosis, one that is caused by the society and religion they grew up in.

Well I think they are better since the people who have children by accident just wanted to have sex and had no reason, mature or otherwise, for having them.  I think even the straight kids who have children out of a desire to have somebody who loves them or prove themselves mature or to keep the one they want from leaviong them are better set up to be parents than the purely accidental ones.

I mean people have all sorts of reasons for becoming a parent but once the kid is there it is a totally new ballgame.

[Martinus]

Ok I guess we are now arguing about minutiae.

I think we can all agree that probably a bigger proportion of gay parents have children for the "good" reasons than straight parents, but the advantage is not as overwhelming as one would believe if all gay parents had adoptive kids.

[The Brain]

Yeah, "populate the world with gays" is a great reason.

[Valmy]

Yeah, "populate the world with gays" is a great reason.

Unfortunately for gays their children are no more gay than straight people's children.  The gay agenda has been successfully thwarted for the time being.

[Razgovory]

Now I don't agree with everything here.  Personally I think that homosexuality fits the criteria of mental illness but a fiat decision in the 1970's was made to declassify it as such, (though other paraphilia such as sexual preference for children or goats or dead people or what ever still remain),  but this is mainstream psychology.

Please die already.

I wish you actually knew something about homosexuality.

[Martinus]

Yeah, "populate the world with gays" is a great reason.

Unfortunately for gays their children are no more gay than straight people's children.  The gay agenda has been successfully thwarted for the time being.

Fortunately, the hetero side has been no more successful. So we are at a stand-still.

Although I'd say that showtunes and musical theatre have proven more effective than ex-gay therapies. 

[Valmy]

Although I'd say that showtunes and musical theatre have proven more effective than ex-gay therapies. 

I am in rehearsals for my musical right now. :gay:  Though one of my good friends once said about doing musicals in SF that he was the only man in the cast or audience who liked girls.

[The Brain]

Although I'd say that showtunes and musical theatre have proven more effective than ex-gay therapies. 

I am in rehearsals for my musical right now. :gay:  Though one of my good friends once said about doing musicals in SF that he was the only man in the cast or audience who liked girls.

*ill-informed rant about usage of the word girls*

B.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, "populate the world with gays" is a great reason.

Unfortunately for gays their children are no more gay than straight people's children.  The gay agenda has been successfully thwarted for the time being.

But but they are giving in to peer pressure to stay straight.  Oh wait.  Their parents are gay.  I guess Marti is going to have to rethink the issue of shifting sexuality.

[Martinus]

Yeah, "populate the world with gays" is a great reason.

Unfortunately for gays their children are no more gay than straight people's children.  The gay agenda has been successfully thwarted for the time being.

But but they are giving in to peer pressure to stay straight.  Oh wait.  Their parents are gay.  I guess Marti is going to have to rethink the issue of shifting sexuality.

Err, what? Do you even read what you write? How does the fact that gay people are no more likely to have gay or straight kids than straight people prove that sexuality is flexible? If anything, it proves exactly the opposite - that it is fixed, and parental influence has no relevance here. 

[garbon]

One thing is that it does appear that sexuality is an elastic concept despite what people on both sides of the debate wish to say about it.

Uhm, that's ridiculous. Trying to conform and being in denial does not mean sexuality is elastic - only that people try to fight it off initially. If sexuality was elastic, why would anyone choose to be gay at all, considering the amount of homophobic crap one has to deal with.

If anything, this suggests exactly the opposite to what you are saying - that even having a previous heterosexual relationship and kids is not enough to keep one from eventually following their true sexuality.

I don't think CC is homophobic () but I would agree that his conclusion does not naturally follow.

[crazy canuck]

Err, what? Do you even read what you write? How does the fact that gay people are no more likely to have gay or straight kids than straight people prove that sexuality is flexible? If anything, it proves exactly the opposite - that it is fixed, and parental influence has no relevance here. 

Marti, you jumped all over me for simply oberving that homosexual couples which were formed from partners who were in heterosexual relationships showed that sexuality can be elastic.  In your usual way you jumped to all kinds of hysterical conclusions which included that gay people start out as heterosexual because they are somehow repressed.

If that is true, and repression is the cause of people not recognizing their "true" sexuality then statistically one would expect that when that pressure is removed more people would recognize that they are in fact gay.  But it turns out that doesn happen at all.  Homosexual parents dont have a greater percentage of homosexual children.

One logical inference from that data is you are wrong about your observation that sexuality is not elastic but merely repressed just as you are wrong about me being some kind of malicious closet homophobe - not to mention all the other craziness you spout.