[Gay] Lesbians parents better at raising children

[DontSayBanana]

Heh, "research says: children of lesbian parents are little shits with entitlement issues". 

We could probably make that even less wordy:

"Cocky little shitheads."

[crazy canuck]

I actually would not find it at all surprising if gay couples were lsightly better parents than the general population.

The general population includes a lot of intolerant assholes. Gay couples, if nothing else, are likely going to be more aware, more tolerant, and more engaged parents, if for no other reasno than it takes a lot more work to have a child when you are gay.

I also would not find it surprising that adoptive parents as a whole are better parents than the average, for much the same reasons. It would be more interesting to compare adoptive gay parents to adoptive straight parents.

I agree.  Simply having to make a choice to become a parent would make them better then the whole sample of hetero parents, which would include parents that were forced into parenthood.

[Barrister]

Since Lesbians are unlikely to get pregnant by accident, the demographic is skewed in favour of those who go through considerable effort & trouble to be parents - as opposed to the hetero category, which includes a percentage of those too dumb to use birth control and too squeamish or religious to get abortions.

Actually the few lesbian couples I know have children from previous, straight, relationships.

[ulmont]

I also would not find it surprising that adoptive parents as a whole are better parents than the average, for much the same reasons.

There have been some studies on this topic, which were mentioned in the Freakonomics book.  The findings, as you would expect, were that adopted children were generally more successful than similar children not adopted (but less successful than natural children of adoptors).

[Barrister]

I agree.  Simply having to make a choice to become a parent would make them better then the whole sample of hetero parents, which would include parents that were forced into parenthood.

Actually I just remembered another lesbian couple I "know" (from their involvement in the court system).  The one who was before the courts was forced into parenthood in the most forceful manner - rape.

[crazy canuck]

I agree.  Simply having to make a choice to become a parent would make them better then the whole sample of hetero parents, which would include parents that were forced into parenthood.

Actually I just remembered another lesbian couple I "know" (from their involvement in the court system).  The one who was before the courts was forced into parenthood in the most forceful manner - rape.

Since we are talking about statistical outcomes of groups, I think we can discard those kinds of examples as statistical aberrations - unless of course you are suggesting that the number of lesbian couples who have children by rape is statistically significant.

[Barrister]

I agree.  Simply having to make a choice to become a parent would make them better then the whole sample of hetero parents, which would include parents that were forced into parenthood.

Actually I just remembered another lesbian couple I "know" (from their involvement in the court system).  The one who was before the courts was forced into parenthood in the most forceful manner - rape.

Since we are talking about statistical outcomes of groups, I think we can discard those kinds of examples as statistical aberrations - unless of course you are suggesting that the number of lesbian couples who have children by rape is statistically significant.

No.  But the number of lesbian couples who have children from previous straight relationships is, I would suggest, probably the majority of cases.

The facts would be different for male same-sex couples with children, since the woman in the relationship statistically is more likely to have custody of the children.

[Martinus]

I agree.  Simply having to make a choice to become a parent would make them better then the whole sample of hetero parents, which would include parents that were forced into parenthood.

Actually I just remembered another lesbian couple I "know" (from their involvement in the court system).  The one who was before the courts was forced into parenthood in the most forceful manner - rape.

Since we are talking about statistical outcomes of groups, I think we can discard those kinds of examples as statistical aberrations - unless of course you are suggesting that the number of lesbian couples who have children by rape is statistically significant.

No.  But the number of lesbian couples who have children from previous straight relationships is, I would suggest, probably the majority of cases.

The facts would be different for male same-sex couples with children, since the woman in the relationship statistically is more likely to have custody of the children.

Still I think even in lesbian couples, the percentage of adoptive parents is higher than among straight couples. But yes, you bring in a good amount of new data that prevents us from writing the entire result off as an "adoptive parents'" thing only.

[crazy canuck]

The facts would be different for male same-sex couples with children, since the woman in the relationship statistically is more likely to have custody of the children.

It would be interesting to see stats on that.  A lot of gay couples I know had at least one person in a previous hetero marriage and the gay couple has the kids of that marriage.

One thing is that it does appear that sexuality is an elastic concept despite what people on both sides of the debate wish to say about it.

[Valmy]

Still I think even in lesbian couples, the percentage of adoptive parents is higher than among straight couples. But yes, you bring in a good amount of new data that prevents us from writing the entire result off as an "adoptive parents'" thing only.

I don't think anybody wrote off anything as one element only, we were only speculating on factors...the only thing that makes me write it off is the data the result is based on.  Courage to champion social causes is the most bizarre measure of parenting I have ever seen.

[crazy canuck]

Courage to champion social causes is the most bizarre measure of parenting I have ever seen.

Yep.

Marti would only agree with this if the causes being championed were ones he agreed with.  But if the cause was say the defence of traditional marriage and banning gays he would have a very different view.

[Martinus]

One thing is that it does appear that sexuality is an elastic concept despite what people on both sides of the debate wish to say about it.

Uhm, that's ridiculous. Trying to conform and being in denial does not mean sexuality is elastic - only that people try to fight it off initially. If sexuality was elastic, why would anyone choose to be gay at all, considering the amount of homophobic crap one has to deal with.

If anything, this suggests exactly the opposite to what you are saying - that even having a previous heterosexual relationship and kids is not enough to keep one from eventually following their true sexuality.

[Martinus]

Courage to champion social causes is the most bizarre measure of parenting I have ever seen.

Yep.

Marti would only agree with this if the causes being championed were ones he agreed with.  But if the cause was say the defence of traditional marriage and banning gays he would have a very different view.

Wow, you are a cretin. The criteria used wasn't being fanatical about causes but championing social justice. It's hard to see fundamentalist homophobia as "social justice" except perhaps in your fucked up world, idiot.

[crazy canuck]

Marti, unfortunately for you social justice can, of course, mean a great deal more then what you would want it to mean.

[crazy canuck]

One thing is that it does appear that sexuality is an elastic concept despite what people on both sides of the debate wish to say about it.

Uhm, that's ridiculous. Trying to conform and being in denial does not mean sexuality is elastic - only that people try to fight it off initially. If sexuality was elastic, why would anyone choose to be gay at all, considering the amount of homophobic crap one has to deal with.

If anything, this suggests exactly the opposite to what you are saying - that even having a previous heterosexual relationship and kids is not enough to keep one from eventually following their true sexuality.

A bit touchy about that Marti.  Coming to close to a nerve perhaps?