Is Israel Too Strong for America?

[Camerus]

The likelihood is proportional to the number of settlements  on the West Bank.

Yeah right!   

[Viking]

Water and Electricity and until the palestinians started blowing themselves up on busses; Jobs.

They have to get permission to walk across the street if they live near a settlement. They are stifling economic activity in the West Bank at every opportunity, intended or not.   

But still they have water and electricity provided by the state of Israel. Now, as to the movement restrictions. They are an occupied people at war. Israel has the right as the occupying power to take reasonable security measures, which seem to have worked.

As for your flippant street crossing line. That is patently false. I'll agree with you if you want to argue that many Israeli occupation policies are counter productive, but do stick to the facts. Palestinians did work in Israel freely until that free access was exploited to blow up buses, Palestinians did move freely between their own cities until they started fighting battles with the IDF. Remember, Netanyahu wasn't elected until 137 Israelis had already been killed by suicide bombers.

[Razgovory]

What attack on Tony Judt?

I don't know who he is.

[Valmy]

For money and for peace.

If the present situation is continued for too long, a new intifadah will emerge. And many Palestinians will support more and more the extremists, like Hamas and Hezbollah. Not a very peaceful future.

Yes the perception Hezbollah and Hamas are winning has certainly destroyed their recruiting.

Remember how all the Palestinians and Shia Lebanese started to like Israel and stop supporting them when Israel pulled out of Lebanon and Gaza?  Oh wait that never happened.

Your reasoning has been proven false by facts unfortunately.  Concessions to the Palestinians have proven to have exactly the opposite effect than what you are saying.  How can you possibly support the idea that making concessions will bring Israel money and peace given that fact?

[Valmy]

It is clear that expanding settlements sends this message to the Palestinians: "fuck you".
What the response to that message will be is unpredictable, but not very positive.

No more than the Palestinians voting in Hamas after Israel left Gaza and dismantled settlements in the West Bank was a message "fuck you" to the Israelis.  The results: Israel more and more supporting their own right wing is fairly predictable.

[Warspite]

It is clear that expanding settlements sends this message to the Palestinians: "fuck you".
What the response to that message will be is unpredictable, but not very positive.

No more than the Palestinians voting in Hamas after Israel left Gaza and dismantled settlements in the West Bank was a message "fuck you" to the Israelis.  The results: Israel more and more supporting their own right wing is fairly predictable.

Did the Palestinians vote in Hamas to say fuck you to Israelis or because Fatah was outrageously corrupt?

[Valmy]

Did the Palestinians vote in Hamas to say fuck you to Israelis or because Fatah was outrageously corrupt?

Entirely and completely irrelevent.  You don't vote for a party whose central part of the platform is war with Israel if you want peace with Israel.  I cannot believe that Palestinians would entirely ignore their relations with Israel while voting.  I mean that is sort of central part of their national interests right now no?

I am not going to vote for the 'Death to Croatia' party no matter how awesome their dog catching services run.

[Warspite]

Did the Palestinians vote in Hamas to say fuck you to Israelis or because Fatah was outrageously corrupt?

Entirely and completely irrelevent.

No, it's quite relevant.

You don't vote for a party whose central part of the platform is war with Israel if you want peace with Israel.  I cannot believe that Palestinians would entirely ignore their relations with Israel while voting.  I mean that is sort of central part of their national interests right now no?

Assuming every Palestinian voter had a eternal war with Israel as their primary issue. But we know Hamas campaigned back then on an anti-corruption ticket, which suggests a good number of Palestinians are acutely concerned with more mundane things like public services. Whether or not Hamas have delivered I have no clue, but I do know that is what they won votes with.

It's a pretty awful choice, yes. But it also shows how the voter's choice is not as clear cut between good and evil as you would like.

I am not going to vote for the 'Death to Croatia' party no matter how awesome their dog catching services run.

But you might if they are delivering bread to your home every two days, whereas the local 'We could cut a deal with Croatia, perhaps' party is busy stuffing its pockets. Normal people fall in with awful political crowds all the time.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't know who he is.

He wrote Postwar.

[Barrister]

I am not going to vote for the 'Death to Croatia' party no matter how awesome their dog catching services run.

As If I'd ever need any other reason to vote for a "Death to Croatia" party.  Damn ustache scum.

[Warspite]

I don't know who he is.

He wrote Postwar.

Pretty good book, but it's a bit of an epic volume. I get a work out just reading it every morning on the underground.

[Queequeg]

I don't know who he is.

He wrote Postwar.

He's a very bright, very talented British Jewish historian who was labelled an Anti-Semite and almost forced out of public life because he made a few comments a bout a One State solution.  I thought that was pretty despicable, as the guy fought in the IDF and has a right to any opinion he wants on the matter, and he's not some insanely rabid pseudo-intellectual Self-Hating Jew like Finkelstein or an eccentric like Chomsky. 

I just got really tired of the Right accusing anyone who comments on Israeli politics of being an Anti-Semite or, worse, a Self-Hating Jew.  Its really goddamn unhealthy, and I think it has warped both American and, through America, Israeli politics.  We have fools like Hansmeister and Jonah Goldberg who throw around anti-Semite at anyone who doesn't want to go Vespasian on the Palestinians, while ignoring the Tea-Baggers abusing Holocaust imagery and accusing Obama of being in league with George Soros and the Israelis. 

[Warspite]

You got any links to the story? Would be interested to read.

[The Minsky Moment]

Did the Palestinians vote in Hamas to say fuck you to Israelis or because Fatah was outrageously corrupt?

Fatah's outrageous corruption would explain why Palestinians would vote for the other guy; it doesn't explain why the only other significant party out there to support is a notorious terrorist organization.

[Queequeg]

You got any links to the story? Would be interested to read.

This is the article that got him blacklisted.
This is an example of the shitstorm it caused.

That article got him pulled from the board at the New Republic.