Is Israel Too Strong for America?

[Malthus]

Jos nationalist tensions were not alone against the regime. Most people cheered ETA's assassination of Franco's heir apparent (Adm. Carrero Blanco), for example. In fact, despite having not yet been born when it happened, I can still quote the verses of a very popular song commemorating the event. Communists, socialists, liberals (in the European sense) and even religious and military figures advocated the end of the dictatorship.

Anyway, and back to Israel: because of the Fatah-Hamas divide, I think it could be a worthwhile pursuit to further drive the wedge between Gaza and the West Bank. Use the stick with the former, the carrot with the latter (especially when it comes to outside perception). The gains to be made I think justify the attempt, however futile.

It's a reasonable approach, if it had any chance of success. Many in Israel (and Palestine) believe that fatah is a broken reed, filled with corrupt and incompetent place-seekers. They are not the stuff of which viable governments are made. The Palestinian situation resembles the Second Comming, in that "the worst are filled with a passionate intensity" and "the best lack all conviction".

So far, the reasonable plan is to make concessions to "the best" in the hope of injecting some conviction into their stance. The problem is that history has not demonstrated any successes with this policy in the past.

[Siege]

Arabs don't really give a fuck about the palestinians and use them only as an excuse to project the responsibility for their collective failures outward.

Say Hans, have you ever talked to a real Arab, or just the caricatures in your own imagination?

I do all the time, while I flexcuff them, if they were lucky enough to be unarmed.

[dps]

The situation is far better than the situation during Franco. I am not only referring to the ETA. During Franco Spain was far more centralised, languages were forbidden,

Yeah, in those times, people in Spain had to communicate with grunts and gestures.   

[Fate]

The last "real" war was in 1982 in Lebanon (around 17000 deaths, compare that with the present situation).

There was a "real" war in Lebanon only three years ago.

That was not a war. It was some kind of punishment act from Israel for Hezbollah/Lebanon. You cannot compare these acts with 1948, 1967, 1973 and 1982.

I can compare them as the Israeli government refers to the 2006 invasion of Lebanon as a war.

[Admiral Yi]

The whole situation today is far better than the situation in the last 40 years. The Palestinians have more or less a bit of their own state, the extremists are confined to the Gazastrip. Israelian civilians are much, much safer from suicide bombers. The last "real" war was in 1982 in Lebanon (around 17000 deaths, compare that with the present situation).

And they were worse 10 years ago then they were 40 years ago.  Like I already said, the concessions of Oslo lead to a surge in suicide bombings, not a decrease.  Withdrawal from Gaza lead to an increase in rocket attacks.  And you continue to ignore the impact of things like the security wall.

[Neil]

I can compare them as the Israeli government refers to the 2006 invasion of Lebanon as a war.

You can try, but it wasn't much of a war.

[Siege]

I really don't understand the insistance on creating yet another arab state on Israeli soil.
Jordan should be the only "palestinian" state.

[Queequeg]

I really don't understand the insistance on creating yet another arab state on Israeli soil.
Jordan should be the only "palestinian" state.

Okay, I'll admit it, Siege is another reason why I've reconsidered my longstanding support of Israeli policy in Palestine. 

[Siege]

I really don't understand the insistance on creating yet another arab state on Israeli soil.
Jordan should be the only "palestinian" state.

Okay, I'll admit it, Siege is another reason why I've reconsidered my longstanding support of Israeli policy in Palestine. 

You mean "israeli policy in Yesha".
There have never been a country called Palestine.

[Neil]

I really don't understand the insistance on creating yet another arab state on Israeli soil.
Jordan should be the only "palestinian" state.

Okay, I'll admit it, Siege is another reason why I've reconsidered my longstanding support of Israeli policy in Palestine. 

You mean "israeli policy in Yesha".
There have never been a country called Palestine.

There has never been a country called 'Yesha' either.  At least Palestine was the name of the British mandate.

[Queequeg]

Right.  And Jews hadn't been a majority in Palestine since the Arab Invasion, and probably beforehand.  And Poles weren't a majority in Pomerania for 600 years.   Maps are flexible. 

This is a dumb fucking game, Siege.  I should think that if anyone should have sympathy for a crazy religious people trying to regain their homeland through occasional, violent rebellions marked by riotous infighting against a technologically superior foe, it should be the Jews.   

[dps]

I really don't understand the insistance on creating yet another arab state on Israeli soil.
Jordan should be the only "palestinian" state.

Okay, I'll admit it, Siege is another reason why I've reconsidered my longstanding support of Israeli policy in Palestine. 

You mean "israeli policy in Yesha".
There have never been a country called Palestine.

And before 1776 there had never been a country called The United States of America, so fuck you.

[Eddie Teach]

I really don't understand the insistance on creating yet another arab state on Israeli soil.
Jordan should be the only "palestinian" state.

Nobody wants to create another Arab state, just for Israel to stop occupying the one created in 1948.

[Admiral Yi]

Nobody wants to create another Arab state, just for Israel to stop occupying the one created in 1948.

Suggested you mean.

[Jos Theelen]

And they were worse 10 years ago then they were 40 years ago.  Like I already said, the concessions of Oslo lead to a surge in suicide bombings, not a decrease.  Withdrawal from Gaza lead to an increase in rocket attacks.  And you continue to ignore the impact of things like the security wall.

Nonsense. Golda Meir said in 1969, that the Palestinians didn't exist. Compare that with the situation 10 years ago.