Ze burkini is a problem with Ze France

[Grallon]

... This isn't one of them, this is a genuine, reasonable problem with a multi-cultural society that deserves a reasonable response.

No it isn't and no it doesn't.  I reject all forms of multiculuralism.  If you choose to immigrate into a different society you must adopt its customs, period.  No accomodation under any circumstances.



G.

[merithyn]

No it isn't and no it doesn't.  I reject all forms of multiculuralism.  If you choose to immigrate into a different society you must adopt its customs, period.  No accomodation under any circumstances.



G.

How painfully dull.

[Duque de Bragança]

A feminist who does not collaborate with islamos, now that's nice for a change 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6f953d3a-8933-11de-b50f-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1

French minister calls for full ban on burka
By Ben Hall in Paris
Published: August 15 2009 03:00 | Last updated: August 15 2009 03:00
An outright ban of the wearing of the burka in France would help stem the spread of the "cancer" of radical Islam, according to the country's Muslim minister for urban regeneration.

Fadela Amara, who is of Algerian descent, said the veil and headscarf combination covering everything but the eyes represented "the oppression of women, their enslavement, their humiliation".

In an interview with the Financial Times, Ms Amara said she was "in favour of the burka not existing in my country".

Along with sexual oppression and poverty, she said, Muslim women suffered "a third form of oppression - extreme religiosity, the presence of fundamentalist groups who continue to propagate their discourse".

France was a beacon for an enlightened Islam at ease with modernity, so it was necessary to fight the "gangrene, the cancer of radical Islam which completely distorts the message of Islam", she said.

Getting rid of the burka would help women to stand up to the extremists within their communities, she argued.

"The vast majority of Muslims are against the burka. It is obvious why. Those who have struggled for women's rights back home in their own countries - I'm thinking particularly of Algeria - we know what it represents and what the obscurantist political project is that lies behind it, to confiscate the most fundamental liberties."

The sight of women wearing the burka, still a small minority, has stirred up an intense political debate in France. The country's parliament last month set up a committee to look into the wearing of the burka and similar headwear, such as the niqab, and to determine whether it is compatible with France's republican tradition of equality between men and women.

Some politicians, including Ms Amara, a former women's rights campaigner, want an outright ban on the garment. President Nicolas Sarkozy said in June that the burka "will not be welcome on the territory of the republic", although he stopped short of calling for its prohibition.

Ms Amara said she understood those who argued that an outright ban would be difficult to apply. But she did not agree that prohibition would simply trap burka-wearing women behind closed doors.

The same arguments against such a ban were made when France introduced legislation against the wearing of the veil [and religious items such as crosses or skullcaps] in schools and by public employees in 2004. But the move had helped Muslim women to face up to male chauvinism in their communities, Ms Amara said.

She also said she did not regard the burka as a religious symbol or as a piece of clothing but instead as an instrument of subordination used by Islamic fundamentalists.

Ms Amara added: "The burka represents not a piece of fabric but the political manipulation of a religion that enslaves women and disputes the principal of equality between men and women, one of the founding principles of our republic."

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009.

[Eddie Teach]

I do not believe that being in favor of woman only bathrooms means I have to be in favor of women only everything no.

I prefer unisex, single-occupant bathrooms myself.

[Zoupa]

Demands from the community is not sufficient reason.

Why not?

What if the community of your democratic, liberal country is populated by bigots? By racists? By pedophiles?

[ulmont]

What if the community of your democratic, liberal country is populated by bigots? By racists? By pedophiles?

Then you end up with bigoted, racist, pedophile laws.  That's how democracy works.

[Zoupa]

What if the community of your democratic, liberal country is populated by bigots? By racists? By pedophiles?

Then you end up with bigoted, racist, pedophile laws.  That's how democracy works.

France is not a collection of city-states or neighbourhood states. I guess it means France isn't really democratic. It doesn't really bother me either. 

[Zoupa]

lol the frog smilie is called zoupa 

I feel sorta lonely though, am I the only frog on languish?

[Habbaku]

Greyfox and Grallon are still around.

[Zoupa]

Greyfox and Grallon are still around.

[Habbaku]

Valmy, too.

[citizen k]

lol the frog smilie is called zoupa 

I feel sorta lonely though, am I the only frog on languish?

We're all Francophiles on Languish. Welcome home! 

Oh, and ... 

[grumbler]

I do not believe that being in favor of woman only bathrooms means I have to be in favor of women only everything no.

Ah, the "all or nothing" argument! 

[Valmy]

Valmy, too.

[Valmy]

I'm an overweight woman approaching 40. I'm already insecure about how I look and how men see me. The last thing I want is for men to witness me struggling through a workout routine, sweating like a cow, barely able to keep up. Add the adorable, perky little 20-something women that seem to populate these places, where the men ogle them openly while wrinkling their noses at the likes of me (whether for real or in my imagination, it's irrelevant), and you've got a set up of pure hell.

Where do you go?  The local college gym?  Gym bunnies are us?  Because I usually see a whole range of ages and shapes.  Besides 20-somethings are notoriously lazy and I highly doubt they all go to the gym as regularly as you think.  I certainly struggled keeping a work out routine when I was in my 20s and heck I simply didn't need to as much.

While I certainly may note a woman is attractive I am there to do my work out and leave.  Secondly shouldn't it be us the men who should feel insecure we have to struggle through routines?  We are the ones who are supposed to be macho macho super confident whatevers.  I just have a very hard time accepting the fact that you really cannot go out in public without worrying that much what perfect strangers think of you...who cares?  Your husband is probably way hotter than those losers you are worried about judging you.

Finally Meri you are cute so it is totally irrational.

Let me go work out in peace, so I can just get through the damn exercises without worrying about if I look fat, out of shape, or hideous to any men around while doing so. I know I look fat; that's why I'm at the stupid gym to begin with.

Yes and actually I find it rather inspiring when I see overweight people working out.  They are trying to take control of their lives and that kicks ass also I am still overweight myself.  Also...um correct me if I am wrong but women are WAY more judgemental about each others bodies than we are.  Heck look at me and Caliga we would be all over the better endowed women...but in any case why do you care that much what we think?

And I'll add this: a woman-only swim time sounds heavenly. I could wear a bikini and tan without worrying how horrible I look, because I couldn't care less what women think about that. I could swim without swim shorts because I wouldn't have to worry about unsightly thigh fat or *coughs* unexpected hairs popping out.

You have no idea how different going to a pool is for women than it is for men. You throw on a pair of shorts and hit the water. We spend hours shaving, prepping, doing sit-ups, etc., before we ever get to the pool, and believe me, we don't do it for the other women who are going to be there.

Whatever most of the men out there look like shit with their big bellies hanging out.  I wish they would spend hours not making the rest of us go blind.

I guess I just don't get it.  Why is it oh so horrible for men to judge you but just fine for women to be assholes?  What sort of ridiculous double standard is that?  I mean it is not like the impression you made on the guy will stay in his mind for more than .00001 seconds and besides we expect most women at the pool to not be 20-something gym bunnies.  As I said before alot do not even like 20-something gym bunnies.