Ze burkini is a problem with Ze France

[saskganesh]

.. .when did homosexuals become experts on heterodoxy? do they have an axe to grind or did I just miss the memo again?

[saskganesh]

AND if you do not have community centres and pools, what you have is called a ... "bad government."

[Ideologue]

Whatever most of the men out there look like shit with their big bellies hanging out.  I wish they would spend hours not making the rest of us go blind.

Men don't care, generally speaking.  They have no shame.

I do think women judge other women though.  If men gave a girl walking down the street the sort of once over I've seen other women do they'd be called perverts.

Yeah, I get that noise all the time.

[Grallon]

Surely you've got to distinguish between customs that matter and customs that don't.

Surely you recognize that what is being discussed is called segregation?  And once you accept the principle of it for small unimportant things, it's only a matter of time before it becomes an option for other things that matter.

What amazes me is that I have to spell this out for you people.




G.

[Martinus]

If you think it's okay to have gender segregated change rooms, gender segregated showers, gender segregated saunas, gender segregated toilets, gender segregated fitness classes and/ or gender segregated areas of the gym, it's pretty hard to make a convincing and consistent case that having gender segregated swimming is oppressive.

Then we should also have gender segregated schools, shops, restaurants, offices, universities, or house rooms.

See, every time I think multiculturalism is not that bad, someone likes you comes around to show me it's an idiocy.

[Martinus]

FYI I don't see this as a black and white issue.  But I would like to address a previous question to you: if women-only swimming hours are an acceptable accomodation for modest women, wouldn't straights-only swimming hours for modest straights also be appropriate?

How do you check if someone is gay or straight?

[Ed Anger]

FYI I don't see this as a black and white issue.  But I would like to address a previous question to you: if women-only swimming hours are an acceptable accomodation for modest women, wouldn't straights-only swimming hours for modest straights also be appropriate?

How do you check if someone is gay or straight?

If they hum along to show tunes, gay.

[PDH]

How do you check if someone is gay or straight?

Look for the pink triangle?

[Martinus]

Not at all.  Do you really think that women only parts of a gym or gender segregated washrooms are that different from gender specific hours at the pool?

I do not believe that being in favor of woman only bathrooms means I have to be in favor of women only everything no.

I'm for gender-segregated bathrooms for one reason: queues. Although in gay bars it seems to be the opposite. 

[Martinus]

I am against it the same reason I would be against single gender schools run by the government.  Fortunately over here the government does not do that anymore.  If they want to make a boys or girls club they are free to do so.  I am not interested in the government accomidating that particular demand, the government should be out to increase integration not introduce segregation.

We have single gender state schools over here.  It's nothing to do with religion generally.  I don't like them because from what I remember while girls do slightly better than at mixed schools guys do significantly worse.

Would you be for the state subsidizing white-only schools, or Christian-only schools? If not, what's the difference with gender?

[Martinus]

Demands from the community is not sufficient reason.

Why not?

Because the community is usually stupid. See: Americans.

[Martinus]

What if the community of your democratic, liberal country is populated by bigots? By racists? By pedophiles?

Then you end up with bigoted, racist, pedophile laws.  That's how democracy works.

France is not a collection of city-states or neighbourhood states. I guess it means France isn't really democratic. It doesn't really bother me either. 

Don't worry. The unitarian model of France is much better than "ever fucking county makes its own laws" American nightmare.

French may be many things, but their country is best run in the world.

[Martinus]

No it isn't and no it doesn't.  I reject all forms of multiculuralism.  If you choose to immigrate into a different society you must adopt its customs, period.  No accomodation under any circumstances.

G.

But it is okay for you to be gay in straight society because you never moved?

Gays are a different culture that forms a society? Wow, that's quite interesting. Where do they live?

[Martinus]

.. .when did homosexuals become experts on heterodoxy? do they have an axe to grind or did I just miss the memo again?

Intimate knowledge + sufficient separated-ness allowing for better deconstruction. Gays have always been experts on heterodoxy. Just read Oscar Wilde.

[Sheilbh]

Then we should also have gender segregated schools, shops, restaurants, offices, universities, or house rooms.

We do have gender segregated schools and we used to have gender segregated universities (there's still one female college in Oxford).

Now I know you're big on being out and the minute (which is good news) but I don't think even you wear a small piece of lycra to the office.  I think this is far more like saunas, or aerobics classes than it is someone's house.

Would you be for the state subsidizing white-only schools, or Christian-only schools? If not, what's the difference with gender?

I oppose gender segregated schools because I think they harm boys' education more than the help girls' so they're not worth it.  I have no problem with state funding of faith based schools, though I don't know if they're entirely segregated, I think it's generally that you get preference if you're of the appropriate faith.

The only areas I'd have issues with state schools is if they refused to teach national curriculum - eg. I'd oppose a school that tried to give any sort of creationism equal standing with science.

Edit:  However this is more like school assembly being religion specific than a segregated single faith school.  I've no problem with that.

Assembly at my school was about an hour a week.  The Minister from the local Church of Scotland Church would come down and expound on the faith before winding everything up with a 20 minute long prayer (God-damn their lack of a set-prayer book).  Catholics were taken into another room with the local Priest who did much the same for Catholicism.  There weren't any kids whose parents weren't of another faith or of sufficiently convinced non-faith to pull them out so I don't know what would happen for them.

That seems more like an hour or two of segregated swimming than a school for whites only.