Ze burkini is a problem with Ze France

[Valmy]

We're not talking about making them 'man and woman only' terribly suddenly (that's all or nothing), we're suggesting that if there's a demand for it in the community then that saunas and changing rooms in gyms should be able to set a period aside that is man and woman only so long as it doesn't interfere with their public service.    No more than that.

Yes and I am against it.  I would not be interested in my tax money subsidizing that sort of service.

[Sheilbh]

I am against it the same reason I would be against single gender schools run by the government.  Fortunately over here the government does not do that anymore.  If they want to make a boys or girls club they are free to do so.  I am not interested in the government accomidating that particular demand, the government should be out to increase integration not introduce segregation.

We have single gender state schools over here.  It's nothing to do with religion generally.  I don't like them because from what I remember while girls do slightly better than at mixed schools guys do significantly worse.

[Valmy]

We have single gender state schools over here.  It's nothing to do with religion generally.  I don't like them because from what I remember while girls do slightly better than at mixed schools guys do significantly worse.

Well we used to have them to but they have all been integrated over the years.  Heck almost all the private single gender schools have been integrated.

[Sheilbh]

We have single gender state schools over here.  It's nothing to do with religion generally.  I don't like them because from what I remember while girls do slightly better than at mixed schools guys do significantly worse.

Well we used to have them to but they have all been integrated over the years.  Heck almost all the private single gender schools have been integrated.

That could never happen in this country.  Sodomy and fagging are the cornerstones of the best education money can buy

[Sheilbh]

Yes and I am against it.  I would not be interested in my tax money subsidizing that sort of service.

Out of interest would you object state funded leisure centres supporting single-sex teams for non-contact sports like football/soccer.  What's the difference in your mind?

[Queequeg]

That could never happen in this country.  Sodomy and fagging are the cornerstones of the best education money can buy

My Mormon Grandmother once seriously argued that Homosexuality was invented by the British. I argued that she was wrong, but I'm never totally sure how wrong she was. 

[Sheilbh]

We have single gender state schools over here.  It's nothing to do with religion generally.  I don't like them because from what I remember while girls do slightly better than at mixed schools guys do significantly worse.

I looked into this a bit more and, presumably for this reason, most of the comprehensive single sex schools are for girls.

My Mormon Grandmother once seriously argued that Homosexuality was invented by the British. I argued that she was wrong, but I'm never totally sure how wrong she was. 

Of course it's nonsense that we invented it.  But it's definitely a part of our cultural inheritance

[Grallon]

If, from Plato to NATO, Western values boil down to mixed gender swimming in revealing costumes then we've really not much to be proud of.

Oh don't be flippant lad - it doesn't suit you.  Sexual hangups is what's behind all this.  We've made headways to distance ourselves from that over the centuries; yet the flood of immigrants from less developped parts is endangering this, one accomodation at a time.  The same goes for religion, which is creeping back into public life. 



G.

[garbon]

Oh don't be flippant lad - it doesn't suit you.  Sexual hangups is what's behind all this.  We've made headways to distance ourselves from that over the centuries; yet the flood of immigrants from less developped parts is endangering this, one accomodation at a time.  The same goes for religion, which is creeping back into public life. 

G.

Neither sexual hangups nor religion have made significant headway in SF.

[Eddie Teach]

Neither sexual hangups or religion have made significant headway in SF.

Quick, Brain, get him!

[garbon]

Neither sexual hangups or religion have made significant headway in SF.

Quick, Brain, get him!

[Sheilbh]

Oh don't be flippant lad - it doesn't suit you.

I find it difficult to take a couple of hours a week at a few swimming pools in any other way.  It's not exactly the thin end of Islamofascism :p

I think this is a classic case of missing the wood for the trees.  Your argument is to avoid appeasing the hard-liners, and I agree that should be done.  But the reason I think it should be done isn't because I think it's a threat to Western values, I've far more faith in Western values than that; I think appeasing the hardliners gives them a status they don't deserve.  It grants the state's approval on the most extreme while ignoring most Muslims.  I don't think we should refuse to allow this because someone are forced to wear the niqab, but that it should be allowed because some women choose to wear the headscarf. 

There are certain things hardliners demand in the name of Islam that are more aimed at enforcing their version of Islam on other Muslims.  This isn't one of them, this is a genuine, reasonable problem with a multi-cultural society that deserves a reasonable response.  I'd also add that although this may appease hardliners I think the cost is minimal to the benefit of getting women who live in that sort of tyrannical household away from it for an hour or two a week and in the company of other women.  I think that's a good side-effect.

Sexual hangups is what's behind all this.

And who said Muslims couldn't integrate into English life.

[merithyn]

Yeah, me neither.  Nonetheless, I was surprised to find a "Women's Only" area of Fitness World ( http://www.fitnessworld.ca/ ) a rather ubiquitous brand of gyms in Vancouver.  It's not a big selling point (at least directed at me) but apparently some women are more comfortable working the weights in a women-only area.

The question, of course, is whether the fact that you wouldn't want to join such a club means they should be outlawed.

Oh, this would be wonderful. Too bad there isn't one of these gyms around here.

[merithyn]

Well we used to have them to but they have all been integrated over the years.  Heck almost all the private single gender schools have been integrated.

We have a private all-girls school here in Champaign/Urbana. I think there's a government-subsidized boys' boarding school nearby, too, but I'm not positive on that. (Kind of a reform school for boys only.)

[Valmy]

Oh, this would be wonderful. Too bad there isn't one of these gyms around here.

http://www.champaigncurves.com/

There ya go

and:

http://www.curves.com/locations/map.php?id=011004501535E

There ya go

What is the problem anyway?  We don't bite.