Israel-Hamas War 2023

[chipwich]

I might have supported Trump if I could believe that he would support Israel. but the fact is Trump lies about everything.

Israel escalated the diplomatic pressure, and I think the primary reason for that is that the PA would actually be someone you could negotiate with.
Norway's recognition is limited to the West Bank PA. Not the Hamas. And no, we are not sending military equipment, but humanitarian aid to Gaza.

You know full well that Hamas is going to embezzle that aid to finance their jihad.

[The Minsky Moment]

I would love to see the GOP under a Trump Administration pass a law stating that any country that participates in ICC cases against non-ICC signatory powers, it is prohibited for the U.S. military to defend them from attack, regardless of any treaties such as NATO, and further make it illegal to coordinate any military training exercises, intelligence sharing or arms sales to such countries.

There's one little hitch with that idea. South Africa did not sue Israel in the ICC. I understand Katz apparently said so, but that just proves that Katz is a jackass (a proposition that required little additional proof to establish).

South Africa sued Israel in the ICJ and they sued on the basis of the Genocide Convention, to which Israel is a signatory.

The South African lawsuit may lack merit, but it doesn't lack jurisdiction.

[Norgy]

"If you deprive people from any other means of expression, that is how it becomes".

I thought the rest of the speech was quite good but this part was BS.  Palestinians have always had access to all the nonviolent means of expression.  They made their own choices.

Do you truly buy into that "The Lexus and The Olive Tree" bullshit? Thought you smarter than that, really.
The American public, or at least parts of it, has had no problem supporting the Irish Republican Army.

I would say that desperation and deprivation, which a lot of Arabs in Palestine, Lebanon and Syria have felt, leads to becoming radicalised.
With the major powers like the UK, France, the US and the Soviet Union having some horses in this race, and now Turkey and Iran, I think what we will see is not a reduction in violence unless someone lays down the sword and says "Maybe we should talk instead?".

The cost, politically, will be huge. Look at what happened to the old warrior hero Rabin. Gunned down. While I consider Arafat a sack of shit in most ways, he had one great phrase on that White House lawn: The peace of the brave.
And, I think that is what we need, and that Israel's more extreme parties need to stop importing voters from Russia and its dependencies and the Arabs need to stop thinking one more eye for an eye will help them in any way.

[Norgy]

I might have supported Trump if I could believe that he would support Israel. but the fact is Trump lies about everything.

Israel escalated the diplomatic pressure, and I think the primary reason for that is that the PA would actually be someone you could negotiate with.
Norway's recognition is limited to the West Bank PA. Not the Hamas. And no, we are not sending military equipment, but humanitarian aid to Gaza.

You know full well that Hamas is going to embezzle that aid to finance their jihad.

We just go with a poster like Ted Lasso. "Believe". 
It is not like we're handing them military equipment. But yes, Norway talks to the Hamas. A Mossad creation. Because we actually believe in diplomacy as a way to either create peace or de-escalate conflicts. Sorry about that.

[chipwich]

Hamas is not a Mossad creation you liar.

[Tamas]

I might have supported Trump if I could believe that he would support Israel. but the fact is Trump lies about everything.

Israel escalated the diplomatic pressure, and I think the primary reason for that is that the PA would actually be someone you could negotiate with.
Norway's recognition is limited to the West Bank PA. Not the Hamas. And no, we are not sending military equipment, but humanitarian aid to Gaza.

You know full well that Hamas is going to embezzle that aid to finance their jihad.

We just go with a poster like Ted Lasso. "Believe". 
It is not like we're handing them military equipment. But yes, Norway talks to the Hamas. A Mossad creation. Because we actually believe in diplomacy as a way to either create peace or de-escalate conflicts. Sorry about that.

Hah, so the Jews ARE behind everything aren't they? 

[OttoVonBismarck]

Literally the only reason for America to participate in NATO is to advance our interests. Not a single European member state of NATO is in it for utopian reasons, they are in it because the aegis of American military protection appealed to them.

The entire purpose of NATO's founding was to unite the West against its enemies. Countries that ally with the West's most significant, most vile, and most destructive enemy--Islam, are not part of the Western alliance and do not serve its purposes. America defending such countries does not serve its purposes.

That is what most of you simply don't understand--Israel isn't about Israel, it is the front line in the most important war the West is fighting and will fight, one that long predates our brief war against the Soviets of the 20th century.

[Josquius]

Literally the only reason for America to participate in NATO is to advance our interests. Not a single European member state of NATO is in it for utopian reasons, they are in it because the aegis of American military protection appealed to them.

The entire purpose of NATO's founding was to unite the West against its enemies. Countries that ally with the West's most significant, most vile, and most destructive enemy--Islam, are not part of the Western alliance and do not serve its purposes. America defending such countries does not serve its purposes.

That is what most of you simply don't understand--Israel isn't about Israel, it is the front line in the most important war the West is fighting and will fight, one that long predates our brief war against the Soviets of the 20th century.

Israel has very little to do with the Ukraine war or Chinese expansionism.

It really is amazing how you hold fast to this early 2000s era misplaced paranoia. The middle easts days as an important part of the world are numbered with the double wammy of climate change and the transition away from oil

[OttoVonBismarck]

China is not a chief enemy of the West, China seeks to dominate East Asia--which makes it a limited-scope enemy in regards to American interests there, but does not have designs on the West itself. Islam still views the West as lands filled with infidels that need to be conquered.

[Josquius]

China is not a chief enemy of the West, China seeks to dominate East Asia--which makes it a limited-scope enemy in regards to American interests there, but does not have designs on the West itself. Islam still views the West as lands filled with infidels that need to be conquered.

Islam doesn't view anything as anything.

[viper37]

Hamas is not a Mossad creation you liar.

There is this about it propped up Hamas recently:
Link


And there is this about the foundation of the movement:
Link


So, creation, as in, recruit its members itself from a newspaper ad like a rock band, no.
Free their leader from prison, give them money to buy weapons, give them free access to roam unimpeded while harassing the secular PLO, yes.

[viper37]

China is not a chief enemy of the West, China seeks to dominate East Asia--which makes it a limited-scope enemy in regards to American interests there, but does not have designs on the West itself. Islam still views the West as lands filled with infidels that need to be conquered.

The computer you are typing on, where do you think all the parts come from?

East Asia is vital to US interests.

Without East Asia, we don't have technology.

[Norgy]

Hamas is not a Mossad creation you liar.

No, of course not.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

[Norgy]

China is not a chief enemy of the West, China seeks to dominate East Asia--which makes it a limited-scope enemy in regards to American interests there, but does not have designs on the West itself. Islam still views the West as lands filled with infidels that need to be conquered.

The computer you are typing on, where do you think all the parts come from?

East Asia is vital to US interests.

Without East Asia, we don't have technology.

We sort of have technology, but not the industry to manufacture it. 

[Iormlund]

I thought the rest of the speech was quite good but this part was BS.  Palestinians have always had access to all the nonviolent means of expression.  They made their own choices.

...so they deserve what is happening?

What's the cutoff date for collective responsibility?

Much longer than the hiatus between rocket attacks from Gaza, I'd imagine.