Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

Hamas is not a Mossad creation you liar.

No, of course not.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

Paywalled.  Does it actually the Mossad created Hamas?

[chipwich]

Hamas is not a Mossad creation you liar.

No, of course not.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

Paywalled.  Does it actually the Mossad created Hamas?

It does not. Norg is a racist liar.

[Norgy]

 

Sure. It is a pretty well-established fact that the Mossad more than lent a helping hand to establish the Hamas as an alternative to the Fatah. Splitting the vote, so to say, from radical terrorism to what was supposed to be a "social organisation". Like the Pakistani intelligence service felt it would be a good idea to let Saudi oil money flow into Quran schools along the Afghan border.

Happy to hear you have opinions about me. I was feeling a bit over-looked here.

Think you should google the term "blowback", Ipswich Town.

[Razgovory]

Pretty well-established?  You'll need to do better than that.

[Norgy]

I need to do better than that? I don't actually, because much more accomplished journalists than me established that link as a fact long ago.

Andrew Higgins of the WSJ, for instance, back in 2009.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2302309/how-and-why-israel-helped-create-hamas

And since I know neither you or Ipswich Town are known for having much of an attention span or the intellects of greatness, I will help you with quoting this:

Gaza, which was occupied by Israel as a result of June 1967 Arab-Israeli war, patronised Mujama al-Islamiya which was formed by a Palestinian cleric Sheikh Ahmed Yasin and viewed it as a harmless organisation involved in charity and welfare work for the Palestinian community of Gaza. Mujama al-Islamiya later became Hamas before Intifada-I was launched in December 1987. Israel considered Mujama al-Islamiya and its successor organisation Hamas a lesser evil as compared to PLO and thought that dividing Palestinians will serve the interest of Jewish state. If Israel termed PLO a terrorist organisation and a major threat to its interests, Hamas was also against PLO because of its secular and nationalist outlook. That is how both Hamas and Israel were viewed as natural allies against PLO.

[Razgovory]

Wait, you said Hamas was a Mossad creation.  Your quote doesn't say that.  It's not even close to that.

[Admiral Yi]

...so they deserve what is happening?

What's the cutoff date for collective responsibility?

I think in spite of all the dumbass choices the Palestinians have made over the decades they still deserve their own state on the West Bank and Gaza.  People will have their own opinions on how much collateral damage the civilians of Gaza "deserved" as a result of Israel's justified military response to the Hamas attack.  That Norwegian PM deserves to be called out for fabricating and myth making.

I don't know what you mean by the cutoff date for collective responsibility.

[Admiral Yi]

Do you truly buy into that "The Lexus and The Olive Tree" bullshit? Thought you smarter than that, really.

If these means do I think the Palestinians have always had access to the nonviolent means of communication and have made their own choices, then yes.

[crazy canuck]

I thought the rest of the speech was quite good but this part was BS.  Palestinians have always had access to all the nonviolent means of expression.  They made their own choices.

...so they deserve what is happening?

What's the cutoff date for collective responsibility?

I see what you did there 

[grumbler]

China is not a chief enemy of the West, China seeks to dominate East Asia--which makes it a limited-scope enemy in regards to American interests there, but does not have designs on the West itself. Islam still views the West as lands filled with infidels that need to be conquered.

China is the chief enemy of the West because it seeks to overthrow the rules-based international order that the West created in the aftermath of WW2 and replace it with bilateral relations between China and every other nation.  MAGAts don't see that as a threat because that's exactly what Trump wants to do as well.

I'm not sure who this Joe Islam is that told you the he still views the West as lands filled with infidels that need to be conquered (it was Joe, right?) but you are naïve to believe he has any significance in the global picture.  I know you really, really want to believe what he says because it justifies your otherwise unjustifiable support for Israel's land grabs on the West Bank, but no one else believes him and so we don't believe you, either.

[viper37]

China is not a chief enemy of the West, China seeks to dominate East Asia--which makes it a limited-scope enemy in regards to American interests there, but does not have designs on the West itself. Islam still views the West as lands filled with infidels that need to be conquered.

The computer you are typing on, where do you think all the parts come from?

East Asia is vital to US interests.

Without East Asia, we don't have technology.

We sort of have technology, but not the industry to manufacture it. 

Yes, it's what I meant.  We're totally dependent on East Asia for technology.

TSMC has moved one of its manufacturing plants in the US, but it has lots of problems.  Intel has lots of problems with its US manufacturing facilities.

The West has long lost any expertise it had.

[viper37]

...so they deserve what is happening?

What's the cutoff date for collective responsibility?

I think in spite of all the dumbass choices the Palestinians have made over the decades they still deserve their own state on the West Bank and Gaza.  People will have their own opinions on how much collateral damage the civilians of Gaza "deserved" as a result of Israel's justified military response to the Hamas attack.  That Norwegian PM deserves to be called out for fabricating and myth making.

I don't know what you mean by the cutoff date for collective responsibility.

If Israel's military response is justified, is the Hamas also justified in targeting Israeli civilians for retaliation?

[Admiral Yi]

If Israel's military response is justified, is the Hamas also justified in targeting Israeli civilians for retaliation?

In the post WWII age I don't anyone is justified in targeting civilians, in the way I understand the term.

[crazy canuck]

Hamas is not a Mossad creation you liar.

No, of course not.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

Paywalled.  Does it actually the Mossad created Hamas?

It does not. Norg is a racist liar.

Just stop it. You have a disagreement, nothing more.

[Jacob]

OFFICIAL MODERATION NOTICE

As per BVS' instructions (see below), I'm going to be a little more active in moderating. I'm going to start with this thread. From here on out, the worst abuse and bullshit is going to be sanctioned.

In particular, I'm referring to going straight to "you're a racist liar" as your argument.

I'm not going to go back in this thread - or any other threads - but moving forward that shit is not going to fly.

I've been hands-off or absent for far too long.  I like the community here, and I don't want to see what's left of it tear itself apart.  I'm going to start moderating and handing out time-outs again for the worst of it.  I'd also like Jacob to do the same.  Light assholishness has always been a feature of Languish, but over the past few months it seems like much of it has become... stronger, more vitriolic.  That needs to reverse, assuming it's not too late.