About those peaceful antifa protests...

[Josquius]

[
Then compete as your true gender. Or don't compete at all.

Thats the Texas policy from your second article.
It is leading to this guy born a woman pumped full of hormones and entirely seeming a normal guy wiping the floor with all competition.

Perhaps both trans women and transmen have advantages that should force them into the (unrestricted) men's leagues.

The whole point of women's sports is to let (cis-) women play competitive sports without biological disadvantages.

I don't see why acceptance of trans people means we have to pretend they're exactly the same as their chosen gender. It makes more sense to expand the number of genders.

It's not an easy one but that does seem the most logical thing to do.
The trouble is it's well and good to say this at the professional level but where is the line drawn? Seems a bit daft to have a trans woman who is just playing sport for fun and exercise at a very non serious and amateur level to be forced into men's sports.

Further there's the complication that male and female isn't as strictly a binary thing as was once believed. You do get naturally intersex people. Recall some years ago that south African woman with naturally high testosterone levels.
I wouldn't put it past a dodgy regime to specifically select for such people.

[DGuller]

Further there's the complication that male and female isn't as strictly a binary thing as was once believed.

Is that really the case?  I hear it a lot, but I usually hear it from sources that would not critically examine claims of this nature.  Honestly, it sounds like a load of nonsense to me.

[Admiral Yi]

That South African woman did have a dick growing inside her or something like that.

[DGuller]

Back to the original subject of this thread, last night by coincidence I stumbled upon a Wiki page for 1932 Summer Olympics, from there on to a couple of other pages.  It turns out that it was quite common for successful female runners in that era to turn out to have disputed gender.

[Oexmelin]

Further there's the complication that male and female isn't as strictly a binary thing as was once believed.

Is that really the case?  I hear it a lot, but I usually hear it from sources that would not critically examine claims of this nature.  Honestly, it sounds like a load of nonsense to me.

You can begin with the RadioLab series on this: https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/radiolab/projects/radiolab-presents-gonads

[DGuller]

Further there's the complication that male and female isn't as strictly a binary thing as was once believed.

Is that really the case?  I hear it a lot, but I usually hear it from sources that would not critically examine claims of this nature.  Honestly, it sounds like a load of nonsense to me.

You can begin with the RadioLab series on this: https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/radiolab/projects/radiolab-presents-gonads

The answer, only the beginning part of it, is six podcasts?  That's too much, sorry.

[Oexmelin]

It's okay. I thought you wanted to know.

[DGuller]

It's okay. I thought you wanted to know.

So if you have an insurance related question for me, and my response is "Here, read this 500-page source material for the actuarial exam, that would be a good start", I'm justified in concluding you don't really care if you don't want to read it?  That's not an answer, that's a fuck-off.

I don't want to pretend that every answer is simple, but generally, if the general gist of the answer can't be boiled down to lay terms in a fairly succinct way, then either the person answering the question doesn't really understand the answer, or a good answer doesn't exist.  Obviously such abbreviated and lay answers have no prayer of covering all the details professionals concerns themselves with, but for the purposes of discussion they should suffice.

[Oexmelin]

Sorry. Your comment is fair. I just don't have time, and I would totally understand if you didn't want to answer my hypothetical insurance related question if it was prefaced by "I am sorry, I think insurance sounds like bullshit to me". 

RadioLab is a pretty interesting podcast that you should check out regardless, and it's designed for laypeople. 

[Josquius]

Further there's the complication that male and female isn't as strictly a binary thing as was once believed.

Is that really the case?  I hear it a lot, but I usually hear it from sources that would not critically examine claims of this nature.  Honestly, it sounds like a load of nonsense to me.

Plenty of cases out there of people being born with both sets of genitalia or something which isn't quite either. And that's the more extreme and visible side of things.
Lots of variation in hormone levels among people.

[DGuller]

Sorry. Your comment is fair. I just don't have time, and I would totally understand if you didn't want to answer my hypothetical insurance related question if it was prefaced by "I am sorry, I think insurance sounds like bullshit to me". 

It's fair.  I added that sentence deliberately because I didn't want to pretend that I was a blank slate on it.  I am starting off fairly skeptical, and I didn't want to be misleading about it.

[Zoupa]

Scientifically speaking, the biological differences in muscle mass, development and strength between the sexes are significant. Current testosterone levels don't tell the whole story.

Biology and genetics are unfair. That's just the way it is. Maybe a transgender category would be the way to go in sports.

[DGuller]

Plenty of cases out there of people being born with both sets of genitalia or something which isn't quite either. And that's the more extreme and visible side of things.
Lots of variation in hormone levels among people.

How do we define plenty?  By absolute numbers or by percentages?  Could it be that gender is binary 99.5% of the time, and the rest is just an unfortunate defect?

As far as variation, I'm sure there is some, but how much crossover there is between the two "old school genders"?  Does the typical curve of hormonal level look like the first one, or the second one?

[chipwich]

It's okay. I thought you wanted to know.

How about you put it in your own words professor.

[derspiess]

Why not?

What about you? What do you think and why?

Don't really care.