What percentage of books you own are by white authors?

[The Brain]

Well for instance this bit

To think that it's only talent that brings an author to the publishing world seems to me pretty naive. To think that people pick book out of the island of their own self-righteous mind, seems to me also pretty dubious.

[Oexmelin]

It was an answer to "the text and only the text", which negated both the context of publishing (i.e., the forces which bring a book to material existence), and the context of reception (i.e., the forces which bring a book to the consciousness of a putative reader).

[The Brain]

It was an answer to "the text and only the text", which negated both the context of publishing (i.e., the forces which bring a book to material existence), and the context of reception (i.e., the forces which bring a book to the consciousness of a putative reader).

The thing Del said? I don't see how his post leads to what you wrote, but I may certainly be wrong. I'll wait to hear what Del says on this.

[Razgovory]

I would like to go on the record and say Grumbler is wrong.  I do not think in words, I think in rebuses. Sometimes, even I don't know what I'm going on about.

[Berkut]

The thing is Oex, that what you are saying?

It isn't about writing books. It is about literally *everything*. Whether evidenced or not, you can make the same sorta kinda compelling argument about literally everything that we produce and consume. Books are not unique or different. The same societal and contextual obstacles to authorship could apply, at least in theory (and all I see here is theory, there seems to be precious little actual data about non-white authors), to everything produced.

What percentage of the people who produce your bagels are minorities? Do you know? Should you know? Are you missing out on amazing bagels that could be made with the product of a world context that includes racism? Is your lack of knowledge about the racial struggles of those who are NOT making your bagels a sign of the very problem? What about your furniture? How much of the computer components in your laptop are designed by black engineers? You don't know? That is cool. But don't pretend your indifference to the answer is enlightenment!

I am pretty progressive when it comes to racism. I think it is pervasive and possibly one of the largest continuing social ills in western society that needs to be addressed (or continue to be addressed). But this level of insistence that I must think about little else, and in every part of my life, just makes me want to tune it all out. Fuck it, if the only way to be a enlightened lefty is to agonize over the racial makeup of the authors of the books on my shelf, then screw it, I am more inclined to just not think about it at all.

This is a cancer in the left. This need to not just acknowledge social injustice, but to martyr ourselves on some self create pyre of guilt and concern that has to reach into every single part of our lives.

This drives those I would consider rational progressives to say fuck it, and probably drives borderline progressives right out of the camp entirely, and gives the Limbaughs of the world a gleeful opportunity to point out how silly it all is - ALL OF IT - this, IMO, is part and parcel with demands for reparations and is a symptom of the lefts obsession with identity politics.

If there is a problem with the accessibility of the marketplace to black authors, then the solutions is not guilting white people into buying books simple *because* the author is black.

[sbr]

I can't believe this actually has to be said out loud, but there is a bit of a difference between books and bagels. 

Creative works, whether they are books/songs/movies/art whatever are trying to tell the consumer something.  That something is going to be greatly influenced by who and what the creator is.  I don't think it is all that controversial to say people that are going to consume creative works should push themselves out of their comfort zones to experience things they might not normally experience.

Sure it doesn't have to be race, it could be gender, nationality all sorts of difference people might have something to say that you might find interesting if you gave them the chance.  How many books written by women would be an equally valid question.  I would imagine that race is used here as first it is still a huge deal here in this country.  Second as someone else said there are not language/translation barriers for white Americans to understand African American art/culture/books.

In the meantime an everything bagel is an everything bagel no matter who created it.

Either way please continue with the cancer comparisons, they are fun too!

[CountDeMoney]

[Berkut]

I can't believe this actually has to be said out loud, but there is a bit of a difference between books and bagels. 

Creative works, whether they are books/songs/movies/art whatever are trying to tell the consumer something.  That something is going to be greatly influenced by who and what the creator is.  I don't think it is all that controversial to say people that are going to consume creative works should push themselves out of their comfort zones to experience things they might not normally experience.

That is a completely different argument to the one the OP is making.

[Oexmelin]

It isn't about writing books. It is about literally *everything*. Whether evidenced or not, you can make the same sorta kinda compelling argument about literally everything that we produce and consume. Books are not unique or different. The same societal and contextual obstacles to authorship could apply, at least in theory (and all I see here is theory, there seems to be precious little actual data about non-white authors), to everything produced.

What kind of data are you looking for?

I hear your argument about it having far-reaching implications, from bagels to computers.  I think it's important to at least be aware of it - so that if I know that all my (Montreal, ergo superior) bagels are produced by minorities, in ways that do not accord with, say, a proportional representation, I may begin to wonder why. I think we have become, thankfully, aware of the more blatant forms of outright racism; it's the more insidious ones, the ones without clear individual authors that are now being brought to attention.

So, I guess I see books as at least a little different from pieces of furniture, because they are willingly designed to shape our imagination and knowledge. But I am willing to consider that bringing black engineers into some projects can perhaps, in fact, make a difference on some things.

There is, for instance, the well-known story of how color film developed (ha) by Kodak took at its standard "white" skin, and therefore, had terrible results for people with darker skin. And there was a high profile case recently about how Google's facial recognition software labeled "Gorillas" for a black couple - and I am sure programmers were all appalled by the mistake, which happened not because they were all closeted racists, but because they designed the software according to points of facial recognition based on white or asian models.

This is a cancer in the left. This need to not just acknowledge social injustice, but to martyr ourselves on some self create pyre of guilt and concern that has to reach into every single part of our lives.

Again, I understand that, and no one wants to be nagged. But I also tend to think there is value in growing a thicker skin about it. If you and I are convinced not to be individual racists, then we can more serenely investigate how, in fact, our behavior may strengthen structural racism.

I never quite understand the argument that being "guilted" through accusations of racism (or Nazism) pushes people in the arms of racists and Nazis. I mean, I understand it from a contrarian point of view, but it doesn't strike me as a good, moral guide for taking political stances.

If there is a problem with the accessibility of the marketplace to black authors, then the solutions is not guilting white people into buying books simple *because* the author is black.

Well, I tend to think that the solution will go through increasing awareness, and demand for black authors, so I am unsure as to what solution you would propose.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

This is a cancer in the left. This need to not just acknowledge social injustice, but to martyr ourselves on some self create pyre of guilt and concern that has to reach into every single part of our lives.

maybe it's the christian need for guilt, to be sinners guilty of something, anything. But since the left (at least in Europe) had as part of its ideology to do away with religion (and in the west that is christianity) they ended up filling that hole with something else. It could be basically anything, as long as it means the western people can be made out to be the font of all evil in the world.
In any case: in many other cultures, where this need for flagellation doesn't seem to exist, they must be laughing their arses off. And I can imagine a few taking advantage of this in order to have us turn a blind eye or accept cultural practices that are abhorrent and/or barbaric. All because, as a society, we're more afraid of being called racist (or whatever) rather than standing up for what is actually right.

[garbon]

Well, I tend to think that the solution will go through increasing awareness, and demand for black authors, so I am unsure as to what solution you would propose.

Just wait for it to spontaneously occur.

[grumbler]

I can't believe this actually has to be said out loud, but there is a bit of a difference between books and bagels. 

Creative works, whether they are books/songs/movies/art whatever are trying to tell the consumer something.  That something is going to be greatly influenced by who and what the creator is.  I don't think it is all that controversial to say people that are going to consume creative works should push themselves out of their comfort zones to experience things they might not normally experience.

That is a completely different argument to the one the OP is making.

And it has nothing to do with "race."  "Race" is a fraud. The sooner we acknowledge that, the sooner we can get to the real solutions for racism and its legacy.

[Oexmelin]

And it has nothing to do with "race."  "Race" is a fraud. The sooner we acknowledge that, the sooner we can get to the real solutions for racism and its legacy.

Do you think there is such as thing as an African-American community in the United States?

[HVC]

In the meantime an everything bagel is an everything bagel no matter who created it.

Jewish made bagels are better. You can really taste the context of millennia of oppression

[grumbler]

Do you think there is such as thing as an African-American community in the United States?

No.  I think that there are different African-American communities in the US, but not a unitary one.

If you believe that race is real, how many races are there?  How does one tell which race one belongs to?