Tensions high in Himalayas as China demands Indian troop withdrawal

Started by jimmy olsen, July 05, 2017, 08:12:07 AM

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mongers

Quote from: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 05:31:44 PM
New, insecure-feeling authoritarians, rattling sabres abroad to solidify their position at home is not a new story...and seldom one that turns out well for anybody.  Especially large, powerful states with territorial ambitions outside their current control.

Taiwan has a lot to be worried about, and Russia is probably happy that nuclear weapons are a thing, lest everything east of Lake Baikal might have been lost already.

Saw an interesting interview with Ai Wei Wei, he said Taiwan is the next move and there would be an extreme confrontation within the next 5 years.

He also likened the CCP to a dynasty and said China has had dynasties that lasted for 200-300 years.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Jacob

I mean, it won't be surprising if the PRC moves on Taiwan, but it's a high risk move.

On one hand, if they successfully conquer and hold Taiwan they will achieve a historic goal and prove they can face down the US, the West and the democratic nations.

On the other hand, if they get their nose bloodied, severely damage their economy, and fail to achieve their objectives they might lose the required level of legitimacy in the eyes of the Chinese people and lose power altogether.

And while the US' will to go all in for Taiwan is potentially in question, especially in the face of a potential fait accomplit by China if they get in there fast enough, the Chinese Communist Party doesn't have a particularly impressive war fighting record.

grumbler

It would almost certainly be better for the West if the PRiCks moved on Taiwan in the next five years, before they can integrate all the new toys their ArmyNavy has been getting recently into a tested and effective doctrine.  Given that the leadership of the ArmyNavy is chosen for its political acumen rather than its professionalism, and the very limited retention of the enlisted cadre, that will take a while.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

DGuller

I was thinking the same thing.  I think China will be a belligerent and growing force for a long time.  It would be better for the Western world if they came early, so to speak, before they had time to aim carefully.

Jacob

Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2021, 07:13:05 PM
It would almost certainly be better for the West if the PRiCks moved on Taiwan in the next five years, before they can integrate all the new toys their ArmyNavy has been getting recently into a tested and effective doctrine.  Given that the leadership of the ArmyNavy is chosen for its political acumen rather than its professionalism, and the very limited retention of the enlisted cadre, that will take a while.

Yeah, from a "this is a strategic problem" perspective, if there's to be a war involving China sooner is probably better than later because - as you say - they'll be less well prepared. So, if I was playing a grand strategy game with this set-up I'd look to provoke a conflict sooner rather than later.

On the other hand, from a "I live in this world" perspective (not to mention a "I have family in China" perspective), I'd rather postpone any wars involving China as much as possible.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Jacob on July 05, 2021, 07:01:03 PM
And while the US' will to go all in for Taiwan is potentially in question

Question is what does "all in" mean in this context.
The US could make a very significant contribution to Taiwan's defense even if it limits itself to a conventional air/naval commitment.  It plays to what still is a relative US strength. That would put the onus on the PRC to decide whether to escalate further -e.g. strikes on US bases hosted by other nations.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

grumbler

Quote from: Jacob on July 05, 2021, 07:47:00 PM
Yeah, from a "this is a strategic problem" perspective, if there's to be a war involving China sooner is probably better than later because - as you say - they'll be less well prepared. So, if I was playing a grand strategy game with this set-up I'd look to provoke a conflict sooner rather than later.

On the other hand, from a "I live in this world" perspective (not to mention a "I have family in China" perspective), I'd rather postpone any wars involving China as much as possible.

Absolutely, the hope should be "let's postpone a war with China until the thugs of the CCP are overthrown."  That's why I noted that it would "almost" be better "for the West" if Ai Wei Wei was correct.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!


Grey Fox

That doesn't look like a fun terrain to conduct skirmishes in/on.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

mongers

Within 5 years also means the possibility of a Trump 'leading' the response to confrontation with China over Taiwan.  :hmm:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Brain

Quote from: Grey Fox on July 06, 2021, 06:03:21 AM
That doesn't look like a fun terrain to conduct skirmishes in/on.

As long as the teams are reasonably balanced and there are no cheaters I'm sure it's fine.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Monoriu


Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Jacob

Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 06, 2021, 10:19:54 AM
What's the point of modern armies engaging in melee?

My guess: limiting the scale of escalation and consequence while fulfilling the need for nationalist chest-thumping.