Haiti president assassinated

[Valmy]

I mean our role in milking Haiti for the repayments was pretty shameful and ultimately I think we benefit when one of our American sister states does well. I certainly hope we do something like that, but I won't hold my breath.

[Monoriu]

I don't know much about Haiti.  The only things I know are:

1. It is a good province in EU games for colonisation.  It is usually a good place for trade in "age of exploration" style games.

2. It seems to be struck by major earthquakes, political upheaval, storms etc on a semi-regular basis.

3. One of my university professors, out of the blue, went on a rant about Haiti for 20 minutes.  Something about the rich there not paying taxes.  He was a typical white Canadian.  Pretty sure he did not come from Haiti. 

[Malthus]

Piketty discusses that in his last book (which yes I'm still reading . . . slowly).
The debt burden placed on Haiti was extraordinary - essentially it was impossible to pay off an sucked off any economic surplus for generations. Whenever it attempted to suspend or default, the burden was coercively re-imposed and extended.  Western creditors basically ran a Mafia style protection racket on the entire country for well over a century.
If ever there was an argument for reparations, Haiti has one.

Yes. I totally agree it's an extroardinary example.

Though personally I support reparations far more widely on more moral grounds but I think the case with Haiti is really difficult to defend.

Capital in the 21st century or another?

I think his latest is Capital and Ideology.

Well they do get foreign aid, but they could certainly use more and we could certainly brand that reparations if it helped achieve that goal.

The issue with aid is that it's normally got lots of conditionalities and also generally organisations bid for it - so all the NGOs operating in Haiti put together pitches and proposals (I know some of the people who write these in other countries - and are quite cynical about it) for USAID or FCDO or Japanese or German aid agency money.

I think the point of reparation that it is more unconditional and certainly would not involve (non-Haitian) NGOs pitching for the money. You know I think it's origins as a term are theological and that is still, I think, a useful way of understanding they are an act to make amends for yours and others sins - a repair in the moral fabric or an atonement in it's most literally Tyndale-ish sense.

Who would actually receive these unconditional reparations?

The government? That may not do much good - if one of the damages that was inflicted was to create a disfunctional, corrupt government. Unconditional reparations may go straight into someone's Swiss bank account.

[The Minsky Moment]

Piketty discusses that in his last book (which yes I'm still reading . . . slowly).
The debt burden placed on Haiti was extraordinary - essentially it was impossible to pay off an sucked off any economic surplus for generations. Whenever it attempted to suspend or default, the burden was coercively re-imposed and extended.  Western creditors basically ran a Mafia style protection racket on the entire country for well over a century.
If ever there was an argument for reparations, Haiti has one.

What do you mean when you say a debt burden was "placed" on Haiti?

It's a euphemism.  Forcibly imposed at the end of a cannon.  The "debt" was the market value of the human beings who been chattel slaves of the creditors.

[The Minsky Moment]

I think his latest is Capital and Ideology.

This.

[Oexmelin]

It was also a scheme to please Parisian bankers, who were the ones lending the money so that Haitians could reimburse their own emancipation.  France had also made sure no foreign banks were to loan the money at more favorable terms.

[The Brain]

I think reparations are an unhelpful instrument. Many countries have needlessly inflicted enormous suffering on other countries, but the way forward isn't to dwell on this. The way forward is to accept the past as a given and build as stable and good a house as possible on the foundation handed down to us. Helping Haiti and Haitians should be done because it's good policy and reduces suffering, not to atone for old sins.

[Valmy]

It was also a scheme to please Parisian bankers, who were the ones lending the money so that Haitians could reimburse their own emancipation.  France had also made sure no foreign banks were to loan the money at more favorable terms.

Oh absolutely. Charles X and his government were as cynical and extortionate as they could be. Kind of puts to lie both the supposed Christian piety of the Ultras and their supposed hostility to big business and its values.