Whither Obamacare?

[The Minsky Moment]

Yes it was a historically awful bill.  But no one was really trying to get it through.  Lazy gross incompetence defeated corrupt malevolence. 

The system worked!

[Eddie Teach]

It took seven years for them to decide they need a replacement plan. In the beginning it was just repeal, repeal, repeal. After people started benefiting from the law, they had painted themselves in a corner. Now some Republicans want to tinker with Obama care and steal credit, while others still want to burn the thing down. Since they don't want the same things, any bill is going to have problems.

In spite of all the bad press, I honestly think giving up is the smart play here.

[Razgovory]

Can't wait to see what kind of nightmare they cook up over a weekend for Tax reform.

"people making over 600k will be exempt from both taxation and prosecution.  The tax burden will be shifted to Radical Islamic terrorists and Germany".

[garbon]

Can't wait to see what kind of nightmare they cook up over a weekend for Tax reform.

"people making over 600k will be exempt from both taxation and prosecution.  The tax burden will be shifted to Radical Islamic terrorists and Germany".

No, no. It always shifts to the poor with Repubs.

[Zanza]

As an outsider, I find this whole episode unbelievable.  From what I have read, Obamacare isn't perfect, and there is room for improvement.  But Trumpcare isn't an improvement at all.  Making sure that 20, 24 million people won't get healthcare anymore?  Hello?  The United States of America, the richest, strongest nation on Earth, democracy and all that, wants to deny essential healthcare to 20 million of its own people? 

And then there is the way the whole thing is played out.  They had seven years to figure out a replacement plan.  What they came up with doesn't sound right at all.  Then they tried to ram something this complex through in a matter of weeks.  One would have assumed that they must be able to unite behind the party banners and pass it.  But no, the party failed to deliver the votes even though they control the House.  Because a certain wing of the party think the bill went too far.  That sounds right.  Wait, no, actually they think the bill didn't screw their base enough.  Now that doesn't sound right, but that seems to be what really happened. 

Am I right?  Did I miss anything important?  One would have assumed that US congressmen would be reasonable, smart and honourable enough to ensure that something along the lines of what I have just described would never happen.  Even if they are merely average people, they wouldn't have done something like this.  One almost have to think they are stupid, deluded, or worse to be capable of doing this.

The extreme polarization of American politics is astounding to me as an outside observer. That questions like universal health care or say climate change are even partisan issues at all is hard to understand. Our own politics seem to be much less polarized and there seems to be a much bigger consensus on general policies and the political competition between the establishment parties is mainly about minor details. We do have our lunatics, but they are in their own fringe parties and have little effect on actual policy.

[Zanza]

Can't wait to see what kind of nightmare they cook up over a weekend for Tax reform.

"people making over 600k will be exempt from both taxation and prosecution.  The tax burden will be shifted to Radical Islamic terrorists and Germany".

That would be hilarious in a way. And dangerous. 

[Barrister]

As an outsider, I find this whole episode unbelievable.  From what I have read, Obamacare isn't perfect, and there is room for improvement.  But Trumpcare isn't an improvement at all.  Making sure that 20, 24 million people won't get healthcare anymore?  Hello?  The United States of America, the richest, strongest nation on Earth, democracy and all that, wants to deny essential healthcare to 20 million of its own people? 

And then there is the way the whole thing is played out.  They had seven years to figure out a replacement plan.  What they came up with doesn't sound right at all.  Then they tried to ram something this complex through in a matter of weeks.  One would have assumed that they must be able to unite behind the party banners and pass it.  But no, the party failed to deliver the votes even though they control the House.  Because a certain wing of the party think the bill went too far.  That sounds right.  Wait, no, actually they think the bill didn't screw their base enough.  Now that doesn't sound right, but that seems to be what really happened. 

Am I right?  Did I miss anything important?  One would have assumed that US congressmen would be reasonable, smart and honourable enough to ensure that something along the lines of what I have just described would never happen.  Even if they are merely average people, they wouldn't have done something like this.  One almost have to think they are stupid, deluded, or worse to be capable of doing this.

The extreme polarization of American politics is astounding to me as an outside observer. That questions like universal health care or say climate change are even partisan issues at all is hard to understand. Our own politics seem to be much less polarized and there seems to be a much bigger consensus on general policies and the political competition between the establishment parties is mainly about minor details. We do have our lunatics, but they are in their own fringe parties and have little effect on actual policy.

I think you're a little blase about polarization going on in your own country.  AfD is growing, and at times the successor to the former East German communist party has grown.  Both of those parties have positions well outside the "consensus" of most of the other parties.

[CountDeMoney]

Can't wait to see what kind of nightmare they cook up over a weekend for Tax reform.

"people making over 600k will be exempt from both taxation and prosecution.  The tax burden will be shifted to Radical Islamic terrorists and Germany".

No, no. It always shifts to the poor with Repubs.

Yup, take from those who have the least to give or ability to do anything about it.

[celedhring]

I think the core Repub agenda of the "the rich should pay less" is shared among all party wings, so at least there's a common ground. But yeah, if they repeat the antics of NeverCare, it could be hilarious. Plus isn't Congress supposed to raise the debt ceiling soon?

[Zanza]

I think you're a little blase about polarization going on in your own country.  AfD is growing, and at times the successor to the former East German communist party has grown.  Both of those parties have positions well outside the "consensus" of most of the other parties.

I agree on both parties, but they are both rather conflicted internally and have so far had very little impact on policy on the federal level. When the Left Party ruled on the state level, they were typically rather close to the consensus.
The AfD has some reactionaries that want the Germany of the 1950s back, some outright fascists that want the Germany of the 1930s back and some libertarians that are similar to the Freedom Caucus. Strange mix and it's not yet clear which wing of the party will eventually win over the others.
The Left has some reactionaries that want the East Germany of the 1960s or 1970s back, a handful outright Stalinists that want the Soviet Union of the 1930s back and some socialists that want the social-democrat policies of the 1970s Europe back. When they were in government the last group had the upper hand so far.

[Admiral Yi]

Yup, take from those who have the least to give or ability to do anything about it.

It would be more accurate to say "not give as much to" rather than "take from."

[garbon]

Can't wait to see what kind of nightmare they cook up over a weekend for Tax reform.

"people making over 600k will be exempt from both taxation and prosecution.  The tax burden will be shifted to Radical Islamic terrorists and Germany".

No, no. It always shifts to the poor with Repubs.

Yup, take from those who have the least to give or ability to do anything about it.

And are the same folk who will vote for more of that raw deal.

[CountDeMoney]

Yup, take from those who have the least to give or ability to do anything about it.

It would be more accurate to say "not give as much to" rather than "take from."

No, assfuck.  They take.

[garbon]

Yup, take from those who have the least to give or ability to do anything about it.

It would be more accurate to say "not give as much to" rather than "take from."

No, assfuck.  They take.

Yi is caught up on those damn welfare queens.

[Admiral Yi]

Yi is caught up on those damn welfare queens.

Welfare queens have no relation to my comment.