Whither Obamacare?

[Oexmelin]

  Perhaps, in real life, most forum members are amazing grassroots activists, and it's just the general tone of the forum that hides it so well. I only have what we all have: more than fifteen years of collected interventions and judgment calls about activism, activists in general, political conviction, etc.  I would be thrilled to learn I am wrong about the political activism of forum members.

Well, most of us don't work on college campuses and as such we have a lower tolerance for children with bullhorns. are bitter and blasé

[Sophie Scholl]

Bernie is a left-wing populist.  He says what his listeners want to hear.  He has basically done nothing since he took office except talk.  He has sponsored no bills, written no legislation, developed no plans, or openly weighed any options.  He just makes promises without regard to how they can be fulfilled.  If that's what Euro socialists are, then I don't think Eurosocialism is the answer.

For what it's worth, he has sponsored 367 bills as per govtrack.us.  https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=400357#_  Feel free to hate the man as much as you want, but at least go about it in an accurate manner.

[grumbler]

  Perhaps, in real life, most forum members are amazing grassroots activists, and it's just the general tone of the forum that hides it so well. I only have what we all have: more than fifteen years of collected interventions and judgment calls about activism, activists in general, political conviction, etc.  I would be thrilled to learn I am wrong about the political activism of forum members.

  So the only two alternatives you can think of are "to the extent that we have political activists, it's BarristerBoy, who is conservative, and Mihali" and "most forum members are amazing grassroots activists"?  Sad.

[Oexmelin]

You don't have a very good eye for tone.

[grumbler]

Bernie is a left-wing populist.  He says what his listeners want to hear.  He has basically done nothing since he took office except talk.  He has sponsored no bills, written no legislation, developed no plans, or openly weighed any options.  He just makes promises without regard to how they can be fulfilled.  If that's what Euro socialists are, then I don't think Eurosocialism is the answer.

For what it's worth, he has sponsored 367 bills as per govtrack.us.  https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=400357#_  Feel free to hate the man as much as you want, but at least go about it in an accurate manner.

I don't hate the man at all, and concede that my information was faulty (though you'll note that a fair number of those bills were just re-introductions of previous bills and many others were amendments to bills, not bill per se).  He has sponsored bills.  He hasn't gotten many passed, but he's an independent, so that's to be expected. 

I still think he's a populist who doesn't care much about the practicality of many of his proposals.  "Just get the rich to pay for it" isn't a program.

[grumbler]

You don't have a very good eye for tone.

But I have an excellent eye for rhetoric.

[Jacob]

You don't have a very good eye for tone.

But I have an excellent eye for rhetoric.

According to whom?

[Sophie Scholl]

I don't hate the man at all, and concede that my information was faulty (though you'll note that a fair number of those bills were just re-introductions of previous bills and many others were amendments to bills, not bill per se).  He has sponsored bills.  He hasn't gotten many passed, but he's an independent, so that's to be expected. 

I still think he's a populist who doesn't care much about the practicality of many of his proposals.  "Just get the rich to pay for it" isn't a program.

I can agree with that.  I like some of his ideas and definitely like that he introduced some new and needed ideas to the arena.  His ability to cause some life and change within the Democratic establishment was also a welcome change.  Alas, too many people bought into a cult of personality around him and couldn't divorce the movement from the man or realize that sometimes you do need to compromise.  I think the Democrats did a disservice to their cause and their party as a whole with how they handled the crowning of Hillary before it even began.  I think Martin O'Malley would have been the best of the three "legitimate" candidates trotted out by the party.  Alas, it was not meant to be.

[Ed Anger]

Jim Webb '20. He killed gooks.

[viper37]

As for what it has achieved, historically, there are many, many things. It has achieved regulations for worker protection and health,

Common misconception.  This happened because employers thought the costs were too big for them not take some kind of measures.  This is how the CSST began.  of course, it evolved into another arm of the all powerful FTQ to increase the costs of doing business under the guise of protecting workers.  Worst part is, most people actually believe that.  Go figure.

[CountDeMoney]

I can agree with that.  I like some of his ideas and definitely like that he introduced some new and needed ideas to the arena.  His ability to cause some life and change within the Democratic establishment was also a welcome change.  Alas, too many people bought into a cult of personality around him and couldn't divorce the movement from the man or realize that sometimes you do need to compromise.  I think the Democrats did a disservice to their cause and their party as a whole with how they handled the crowning of Hillary before it even began.  I think Martin O'Malley would have been the best of the three "legitimate" candidates trotted out by the party.  Alas, it was not meant to be.

Bernie is an antiqued model of the far left; he's straight from the '60s, and once Clinton Centrist Corporatism took hold of the party, his kind was cute but archaic--emblematic of all the losers over the years.  For decades, he stayed nice and ensconced up in his little Green Mountains ganja-and-granola redoubt, until he decided to do the third-party-insurgent thingy with the DNC. 

You know, for all the bitching about Bernie's "grassroots activism" bullshit, some people can't seem to wrap their fucking heads around the fact that Bernie Sanders was NEVER A MEMBER OF THE MOTHERFUCKING DEMOCRATIC PARTY.  He's only once been a Committee chair and that was for a year, never even been a member of an Administration; hell, he never really raised money for the local Democrats in Vermont, and that included Howard Dean.  Toss his little bombs here and there, and maintain his sense of moral superiority.  And people expected the DNC machine to hand it over to him?
To quote Ricky Watters, "For who? For what?"

[Admiral Yi]

Bernie is an antiqued model of the far left; he's straight from the '60s, and once Clinton Centrist Corporatism took hold of the party, his kind was cute but archaic--emblematic of all the losers over the years.  For decades, he stayed nice and ensconced up in his little Green Mountains ganja-and-granola redoubt, until he decided to do the third-party-insurgent thingy with the DNC. 

Disagree.  At least going by what was on his campaign website, he's a slightly amped up Chuck Schumer "tax the fat cats and give our guys free money" Democrat with some protectionism to ice the cake.

[Razgovory]

I'm with Seedy here.  It took time, but the rest of the Democratic slowly and painfully grew out of the 1960's.  It took until the 1990's for it to happen, but we got there.  Sanders was still back in 1968 fucking things up at the convention and handing the election over to Nixon.

[Eddie Teach]

I don't hate the man at all, and concede that my information was faulty (though you'll note that a fair number of those bills were just re-introductions of previous bills and many others were amendments to bills, not bill per se).  He has sponsored bills.  He hasn't gotten many passed, but he's an independent, so that's to be expected. 

I still think he's a populist who doesn't care much about the practicality of many of his proposals.  "Just get the rich to pay for it" isn't a program.

I can agree with that.  I like some of his ideas and definitely like that he introduced some new and needed ideas to the arena.  His ability to cause some life and change within the Democratic establishment was also a welcome change.  Alas, too many people bought into a cult of personality around him and couldn't divorce the movement from the man or realize that sometimes you do need to compromise.  I think the Democrats did a disservice to their cause and their party as a whole with how they handled the crowning of Hillary before it even began.  I think Martin O'Malley would have been the best of the three "legitimate" candidates trotted out by the party.  Alas, it was not meant to be.

Not after seeing him played by Littlefinger in The Wire.

[Berkut]

I can agree with that.  I like some of his ideas and definitely like that he introduced some new and needed ideas to the arena.  His ability to cause some life and change within the Democratic establishment was also a welcome change.  Alas, too many people bought into a cult of personality around him and couldn't divorce the movement from the man or realize that sometimes you do need to compromise.  I think the Democrats did a disservice to their cause and their party as a whole with how they handled the crowning of Hillary before it even began.  I think Martin O'Malley would have been the best of the three "legitimate" candidates trotted out by the party.  Alas, it was not meant to be.

Bernie is an antiqued model of the far left; he's straight from the '60s, and once Clinton Centrist Corporatism took hold of the party, his kind was cute but archaic--emblematic of all the losers over the years.  For decades, he stayed nice and ensconced up in his little Green Mountains ganja-and-granola redoubt, until he decided to do the third-party-insurgent thingy with the DNC. 

You know, for all the bitching about Bernie's "grassroots activism" bullshit, some people can't seem to wrap their fucking heads around the fact that Bernie Sanders was NEVER A MEMBER OF THE MOTHERFUCKING DEMOCRATIC PARTY.  He's only once been a Committee chair and that was for a year, never even been a member of an Administration; hell, he never really raised money for the local Democrats in Vermont, and that included Howard Dean.  Toss his little bombs here and there, and maintain his sense of moral superiority.  And people expected the DNC machine to hand it over to him?
To quote Ricky Watters, "For who? For what?"

I was always kind of bemused by the people who were all "ZOMG TEH DNC IS TRYING TO FUCK BERNIE!"

Of course they are - they should be, why wouldn't they be, and what planet are you from that makes you think the DNC is going to be nice to an insurgent?