Greatest Military Commander Before the Industrial Age

[celedhring]

What's considered "the Industrial Age"? Nelson and Napoleon could be considered part of it.

Seeing as Tamas is pushing Hungarians I'm going to push a Russian. Alexander Suvorov. It's interesting to speculate what would have happened if he lived long enough to fight Napoleon. Kutuzov was his student and one of the best anti-Napoleon commanders at the time.

Is it me or is he largely forgotten? Given Russian fondness for hyper-nationalistic bruhaha he doesn't seem to be pushed much in the Russian heroic pantheon. Maybe it's because he was never involved in a big existential war like Nappy's invasion or WWII.

[Solmyr]

What's considered "the Industrial Age"? Nelson and Napoleon could be considered part of it.

Seeing as Tamas is pushing Hungarians I'm going to push a Russian. Alexander Suvorov. It's interesting to speculate what would have happened if he lived long enough to fight Napoleon. Kutuzov was his student and one of the best anti-Napoleon commanders at the time.

Is it me or is he largely forgotten? Given Russian fondness for hyper-nationalistic bruhaha he doesn't seem to be pushed much in the Russian heroic pantheon. Maybe it's because he was never involved in a big existential war like Nappy's invasion or WWII.

He's still quite well-known and respected in Russia, though as you say not really mentioned much in the nationalistic rhetoric. Though he may have been an ethnic Finn, anyway (but then, plenty of Russian military comanders were not ethnic Russians).

[The Larch]

What's considered "the Industrial Age"? Nelson and Napoleon could be considered part of it.

Seeing as Tamas is pushing Hungarians I'm going to push a Russian. Alexander Suvorov. It's interesting to speculate what would have happened if he lived long enough to fight Napoleon. Kutuzov was his student and one of the best anti-Napoleon commanders at the time.

Is it me or is he largely forgotten? Given Russian fondness for hyper-nationalistic bruhaha he doesn't seem to be pushed much in the Russian heroic pantheon. Maybe it's because he was never involved in a big existential war like Nappy's invasion or WWII.

He's still quite well-known and respected in Russia, though as you say not really mentioned much in the nationalistic rhetoric. Though he may have been an ethnic Finn, anyway (but then, plenty of Russian military comanders were not ethnic Russians).

I'd say that the fact that he served during the relatively uninteresting 2nd half of the XVIIIth century plays agains his standing in the pantheon of great military leaders. If he had lived longer and been part of the Napoleonic Wars he'd be much better known and appreciated. I mean, which are his best known campaigns or battles? The Italian Campaign of the War of the 2nd coalition against Revolutionary France?

[Razgovory]

What's considered "the Industrial Age"? Nelson and Napoleon could be considered part of it.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing.  I mean, they had steam engines and everything.

[Solmyr]

I'd say that the fact that he served during the relatively uninteresting 2nd half of the XVIIIth century plays agains his standing in the pantheon of great military leaders. If he had lived longer and been part of the Napoleonic Wars he'd be much better known and appreciated. I mean, which are his best known campaigns or battles? The Italian Campaign of the War of the 2nd coalition against Revolutionary France?

That, and the battles of the Russo-Turkish Wars.

[jimmy olsen]

What's considered "the Industrial Age"? Nelson and Napoleon could be considered part of it.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing.  I mean, they had steam engines and everything.

No steamships and no railroads involved in the Napoleonic Wars. They were key features in the American Civil War and other conflicts in the 2nd half of19th century . Mass production with interchangeable parts was in its most embryonic form. Given these facts I would bot call the Napoleonic Wars an industrial conflict.

[Valmy]

Oh Hell I don't know. The problem with guys like Frederick and Alexander is they got handed top notch military machines and then beat up on clearly inferior opponents.

I think I will go with Caesar. He was going up against the greatest army in the area at the time, other Romans, and always won usually against superior odds.

[CountDeMoney]

What's considered "the Industrial Age"? Nelson and Napoleon could be considered part of it.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing.  I mean, they had steam engines and everything.

Yeah, I kinda figured that the Industrial Age began in Britain sometime in the 1760s, and on the continent around 1800;  even without automated machinery, some manufacturing sectors were running 24 hours by then.

I think it's a bit unbalanced to try to pinpoint the Industrial Revolution, yet sweep all of antiquity under the same canopy to define Best Evah.

So I will go with Eugene of Savoy.  Tough little bastard.

[The Brain]

Oh Hell I don't know. The problem with guys like Frederick and Alexander is they got handed top notch military machines and then beat up on clearly inferior opponents.

I think I will go with Caesar. He was going up against the greatest army in the area at the time, other Romans, and always won usually against superior odds.

Gustavus Adolphus inherited a crap army (had been crushed by Poles FFS) and had to create a great army. Caesar's was a product of that famously inept military machine Republican Rome.

[Razgovory]

Oh Hell I don't know. The problem with guys like Frederick and Alexander is they got handed top notch military machines and then beat up on clearly inferior opponents.

I think I will go with Caesar. He was going up against the greatest army in the area at the time, other Romans, and always won usually against superior odds.

Gustavus Adolphus inherited a crap army (had been crushed by Poles FFS) and had to create a great army. Caesar's was a product of that famously inept military machine Republican Rome.

He also inherited a crap country.  Left one as well.

[CountDeMoney]

Belisarius:  the Don Strock of the Byzantine Empire

[Ed Anger]

Belisarius:  the Don Strock of the Byzantine Empire

[The Larch]

I think it's a bit unbalanced to try to pinpoint the Industrial Revolution, yet sweep all of antiquity under the same canopy to define Best Evah.

We could do a tournament and make brackets for each time period. Say, Classical Era - Late Antiquity/Early Middle Age - High/Late Middle Age - Renaissance/Early Modern. Who's the #1 seed for each bracket?

[The Brain]

Oh Hell I don't know. The problem with guys like Frederick and Alexander is they got handed top notch military machines and then beat up on clearly inferior opponents.

I think I will go with Caesar. He was going up against the greatest army in the area at the time, other Romans, and always won usually against superior odds.

Gustavus Adolphus inherited a crap army (had been crushed by Poles FFS) and had to create a great army. Caesar's was a product of that famously inept military machine Republican Rome.

He also inherited a crap country.  Left one as well.

[The Minsky Moment]

Admiral Yi - great leader hobbled by a devastating gambling addiction.