Greatest Military Commander Before the Industrial Age

[jimmy olsen]

Now, I'm sure to get bitched out for leaving X_historical figure off the list, or putting Y_historical figure on it, but that's half the fun.

Tried to make it not so Eurocentric, but I'm sure I missed some worthy Eastern contenders.

[Hamilcar]

Yi Sun-Shin probably faced the worst odds and the most interference by the royal government.

[celedhring]

I'll go with sheer amount of territory conquered/devastated and vote for Subutai. I'm aware it's by no means the best metric but it's really hard to compare those.

[Zanza]

Alexander the Great

[Tamas]

In terms of historical impact it's hard to argue against Alexander.

In terms of doing very well when the odds are clearly stacked against you, I nominate Janos Hunyadi. The country he was protecting was way too divided and decentralised to be willing to put up a united front, so he never had the full backing which MIGHT had given him a chance, yet he inflicted defeat after defeat on the Ottomans, culminating in his successful defense of Belgrade.

He had bought Hungary a generation worth of time, it was not his fault the aristocracy refused to use it.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hunyadi.html

[celedhring]

Also, not sure what Nelson is doing in that list tbf. And no, it's not sour grapes 

He has probably just two? major victories under his belt, one of which he didn't survive. Heck, I'd rate Wellington above him in overall performance during the Napoleonic wars.

[HVC]

In terms of historical impact it's hard to argue against Alexander.

In terms of doing very well when the odds are clearly stacked against you, I nominate Janos Hunyadi. The country he was protecting was way too divided and decentralised to be willing to put up a united front, so he never had the full backing which MIGHT had given him a chance, yet he inflicted defeat after defeat on the Ottomans, culminating in his successful defense of Belgrade.

He had bought Hungary a generation worth of time, it was not his fault the aristocracy refused to use it.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hunyadi.html

wasnt his father Serbian? Too black a mark, I'm afraid.

[Tonitrus]

Also, not sure what Nelson is doing in that list tbf. And no, it's not sour grapes 

He has probably just two? major victories under his belt, one of which he didn't survive. Heck, I'd rate Wellington above him in overall performance during the Napoleonic wars.

Maybe true.  Drake vs. the Armada was likely more of a key victory. 

[Tamas]

In terms of historical impact it's hard to argue against Alexander.

In terms of doing very well when the odds are clearly stacked against you, I nominate Janos Hunyadi. The country he was protecting was way too divided and decentralised to be willing to put up a united front, so he never had the full backing which MIGHT had given him a chance, yet he inflicted defeat after defeat on the Ottomans, culminating in his successful defense of Belgrade.

He had bought Hungary a generation worth of time, it was not his fault the aristocracy refused to use it.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hunyadi.html

wasnt his father Serbian? Too black a mark, I'm afraid.

As the badass article mentions, it's not certain As with several historical figures who were born in the territory of Hungary and fought/contributed to the Hungarian state/culture, he is claimed by at least one other nationalities from within the old border.

[jimmy olsen]

Also, not sure what Nelson is doing in that list tbf. And no, it's not sour grapes 

He has probably just two? major victories under his belt, one of which he didn't survive. Heck, I'd rate Wellington above him in overall performance during the Napoleonic wars.

The Nile, Copenhagen, & Trafalgar

Thought the navy deserved some recognition on the list, so I picked him and Yi. Who would you have picked instead?

[HVC]

In terms of historical impact it's hard to argue against Alexander.

In terms of doing very well when the odds are clearly stacked against you, I nominate Janos Hunyadi. The country he was protecting was way too divided and decentralised to be willing to put up a united front, so he never had the full backing which MIGHT had given him a chance, yet he inflicted defeat after defeat on the Ottomans, culminating in his successful defense of Belgrade.

He had bought Hungary a generation worth of time, it was not his fault the aristocracy refused to use it.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hunyadi.html

wasnt his father Serbian? Too black a mark, I'm afraid.

As the badass article mentions, it's not certain As with several historical figures who were born in the territory of Hungary and fought/contributed to the Hungarian state/culture, he is claimed by at least one other nationalities from within the old border.

can't take the chance, sorry

Although Hungary does have an interesting history. I remember going on a binge a few years ago and reading as much as I could.

[celedhring]

Also, not sure what Nelson is doing in that list tbf. And no, it's not sour grapes 

He has probably just two? major victories under his belt, one of which he didn't survive. Heck, I'd rate Wellington above him in overall performance during the Napoleonic wars.

The Nile, Copenhagen, & Trafalgar

Thought the navy deserved some recognition on the list, so I picked him and Yi. Who would you have picked instead?

Yi belongs on that list without discussion. I'd say Barbarossa. Massively successful as both a raider and in winning pitched battles with odds stacked against him. Made the Ottomans dominant in the Med for the better half of the XVIth century.

[Solmyr]

What's considered "the Industrial Age"? Nelson and Napoleon could be considered part of it.

Seeing as Tamas is pushing Hungarians I'm going to push a Russian. Alexander Suvorov. It's interesting to speculate what would have happened if he lived long enough to fight Napoleon. Kutuzov was his student and one of the best anti-Napoleon commanders at the time.

[Josquius]

Nelson didn't need more victories when the big one was so decisive.

[celedhring]

Nelson didn't need more victories when the big one was so decisive.

Meh, if "one big decisive battle" is enough, others won bigger victories than Trafalgar. Spruance probably won the Pacific War by himself at Midway.

Anyhow, the Navy languishites will probably know better than me.