Mass killing in Orlando gay nightclub

[Martinus]

So, this couple I posted about earlier, they were going to get married. Their families are now going to host a joint funeral for them. 



http://time.com/4366957/orlando-shooting-juan-guerrero-christopher-drew-leinonen/?xid=time_socialflow_facebook

The pictures of them with their families show they were loving and accepting. It's so heartbreaking. 

[garbon]

I hope we can get a photo of them posted in this thread at least one more time.

[Valmy]

I hope we can get a photo of them posted in this thread at least one more time.

Fourth times the charm?

I guess those men struck a chord with Marty.

[Martinus]

I hope we can get a photo of them posted in this thread at least one more time.

I am sorry a brutal heartless massacre of good, loving people is not providing you with an opportunity for a "pleasant discussion".

[garbon]

I hope we can get a photo of them posted in this thread at least one more time.

I am sorry a brutal heartless massacre of good, loving people is not providing you with an opportunity for a "pleasant discussion".

I know it might not be everyone's take, but I've never seen much of the point in the constant plastering of what the victims were like and delving into their aborted dreams, plans and hopes. The tragedy is all too real and heartbreaking without an endless cycle of viewing who they were and who they will never be.

[11B4V]

I hope we can get a photo of them posted in this thread at least one more time.

I am sorry a brutal heartless massacre of good, loving people is not providing you with an opportunity for a "pleasant discussion".

You need to know when to throttle back and pull up. You just go into a steep dive and firewall the throttle.

[garbon]

I am still wondering what Marti is doing here if he doesn't find it a pleasant diversion.

[Martinus]

I hope we can get a photo of them posted in this thread at least one more time.

I am sorry a brutal heartless massacre of good, loving people is not providing you with an opportunity for a "pleasant discussion".

I know it might not be everyone's take, but I've never seen much of the point in the constant plastering of what the victim's were like and delving into their aborted dreams, plans and hopes. The tragedy is all to real and heartbreaking with and endless cycle of viewing who they were and who they will never be.

We all cope differently.

[Martinus]

I am still wondering what Marti is doing here if he doesn't find it a pleasant diversion.

I do find it a fun diversion - but my concept of fun doesn't involve "pleasant".

[garbon]

I am still wondering what Marti is doing here if he doesn't find it a pleasant diversion.

I do find it a fun diversion - but my concept of fun doesn't involve "pleasant".

Clearly.

[barkdreg]

Martinus: Having no intention to crawl through a 40-page rant I was wondering what your thoughts are on the fact that the shooter might be gay.

[Berkut]

Martinus: Having no intention to crawl through a 40-page rant I was wondering what your thoughts are on the fact that the shooter might be gay.

I think at the least we need to take a hard look at letting more gay men into the country, given their habit of shooting people.

Until we can figure it all out, we should probably just ban all gay immigrants, just to be sure.

[Sheilbh]

Can't we just mourn all these deaths?  Can't we agree this was an attack motivated by BOTH radical islam and homophobia?

I will read the rest of this thread, where no doubt most of this has already been said - but that's never stopped me before.

I got riled about this because Jones said that it was both. The host basically started objecting when he was talking about it as a homophobic attack. The host said something along the lines of it was 'an attack on all people' and an 'attack on all people who want to go out and part on a Saturday'. That was my, and Jones' issue. It's not true. It's no more right than saying that the killings in the Kosher supermarket was an attack on us all or an attack on anyone doing their shopping. Maybe that's part of it, but it was also an attack on specific gay or Jewish people.

So I think it's part of our language when we deal with a terrorist attack now to universalise it. So we are all France, we are all America, je suis Charlie - but it does come at the danger of erasing the particular differences and nuances (which often are actually the target - that diversity, that liberal co-existence of difference). I think there is a risk in a case like this of mourning the gay away when, in my opinion that should be front and centre in our coverage of this. Regardless of this man's motivations the reason these 50 individuals died is because they were gay/comfortable with the gays. Obviously there were straight victims too, Jones aptly mentioned the Admiral Duncan which was a pub in Soho a neo-Nazi pipe bombed about 20 years ago (still a decent pub), one of the victims was a pregnant woman there with her husband meeting their gay friends, but they'd gone to a gay place.

It also seems striking to me that we all rightly laugh at the whole 'safe space' thing. But part of the shock at this attack is that in many ways gay bars are one of the proto-typical safe spaces. They exist because the people in them couldn't hold hands or kiss elsewhere. I remember reading that it was apparently a very big deal in the gay press the first time a gay bar, in Manchester I think, got plate glass windows because before then they'd always judged the risk of some sort of attack as too high. It is, I think, useful to remember that that is also what's been attacked. It is a cliche but I think there is something to the idea that bars are gay community centres.

And finally I do think it wouldn't hurt straight people to think and maybe talk quietly among themselves about that aspect - and also, especially, the ones on my Facebook sharing that Harvey Milk quote maybe look up its context and the lines around it. Because the sympathy and the empathy people have is great and something I always find moving, but it would be even better if it could lead to deeper reflection and understanding and solidarity between people.

I suppose part of my reaction against it is that I always get fucked off by the, admittedly always interesting, focus on the killer, over the victims. But I think we in doing that we do end up making fucked up losers into anti-heroes. I always think this especially with the mass shootings in the US.

On the whole Islamic radicalism v homophobia I think we could do a lot worse than focusing on the need to end homophobia in the Muslim community. It is something, like anti-semitism in the Muslim community or any other form of bigotry anywhere else that needs to be called out and confronted. I haven't had time to read loads lately but the impression I get is that actually in this case it seems far more like that was his issue rather than takfiri radicalism, you know.

[Admiral Yi]

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/06/12/omar-mateens-hidden-wife-who-is-she/

Dudes' first wife is pretty cute.

[11B4V]

They'll keep pulling the string.