File this under "B", for "Boo Fucking Hoo"

[Malthus]

Deciding the university life is not for her = okay, maybe a good decision or maybe a bad one, but hers to make.

Deciding to disappear, sending friends, family & school into a panic = not okay. Inflicts easily foreseeable harm on those who care about her.

I agree that, in a perfect world full of only rational decision-makers, she would have foreseen the consequences of her actions.  However, for a person fleeing the pressures of expectations she is ashamed to admit that she cannot live up to, going into a shell isn't unexpected either.  She didn't want to talk to anyone because she didn't want to have to explain her "failure."  Dumb, as young people can be.

I agree with the points you and Jacob are making here. My only point is that concentrating on her decision to withdraw from university is concentrating on the wrong thing: whatever one thinks about that decision, it's one she can legitimately make.

Deciding to "disappear" is far more problematic (though it may well be understandable, for the reasons you and Jacob state). Speaking as a parent, 'disappearing' must be one of the worst scares you can put them through without actual harm to anyone: her mother would naturally suspect the worst.

[CountDeMoney]

Well, thank god I never turned to you when I was depressed. Might have ended up in the morgue.

Now, now...you're not exactly Mr. Support Group Facilitator yourself. 

[garbon]

Also, B, where do you get this argued position that the system needs to be changed? I don't see anything in the OP about her saying that there are systemic changes needed to avoid having what happened to her, happen to other people.

On the face of it, throwing that away is a pretty foolish thing to do. Nonetheless, this girl walked away from it - in a rather dramatic way too. Seems to me an indication that there's a substantial problem somewhere.

Someone else linked an article about the horrors of being in the Ivy League.

Seems like there was some kind of position being put forth that this is a problem with the system, rather than the person.

Jake's quote could easily mean that there is a problem with the girl but I'll leave him to speak for himself.

BB did link to something that does note issues that can happen - which is a very real thing. Many poorer individuals scrub out at top schools.

I guess your answer though is there isn't actually an argument being built among those lines. You are semi-constructing one to tilt against.

By the by, if there is any charge to levy against universities, I think it would be the general one of how we assist those with mental illness. Like the fact that this 'brilliant' solution was come across to cut down on suicides at NYU.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/26/nyus-brilliant-design-solution-to-a-buildings-suicide-problem/

[mongers]

Deciding the university life is not for her = okay, maybe a good decision or maybe a bad one, but hers to make.

Deciding to disappear, sending friends, family & school into a panic = not okay. Inflicts easily foreseeable harm on those who care about her.

I agree that, in a perfect world full of only rational decision-makers, she would have foreseen the consequences of her actions.  However, for a person fleeing the pressures of expectations she is ashamed to admit that she cannot live up to, going into a shell isn't unexpected either.  She didn't want to talk to anyone because she didn't want to have to explain her "failure."  Dumb, as young people can be.

I agree with the points you and Jacob are making here. My only point is that concentrating on her decision to withdraw from university is concentrating on the wrong thing: whatever one thinks about that decision, it's one she can legitimately make.

Deciding to "disappear" is far more problematic (though it may well be understandable, for the reasons you and Jacob state). Speaking as a parent, 'disappearing' must be one of the worst scares you can put them through without actual harm to anyone: her mother would naturally suspect the worst.

I don't disagree, though I think you could look at the disappearing as a separate act and maybe she 'thought' it the better option, rather than 'disappearing' for ever. Perhaps that was the choice she made?

[garbon]

Certainly the OP made her share of excused as well. Her teachers didn't care about her, the other students were mean, etc., etc.

So what? She isn't allowed to point out things that made her feel that way?  Working 100 hour weeks, having no social life and being belittled by my boss after having always succeeded was definitely causal in my depression. Doesn't mean there is a systemic problem with companies that I want addressed.

[garbon]

Well, thank god I never turned to you when I was depressed. Might have ended up in the morgue.

Now, now...you're not exactly Mr. Support Group Facilitator yourself. 

I'm pretty soft on the inside.

[Malthus]

I don't disagree, though I think you could look at the disappearing as a separate act and maybe she 'thought' it the better option, rather than 'disappearing' for ever. Perhaps that was the choice she made?

Not sure I understand this.

[mongers]

Well, thank god I never turned to you when I was depressed. Might have ended up in the morgue.

Now, now...you're not exactly Mr. Support Group Facilitator yourself. 

I'm pretty soft on the inside.

TMI.


Visage broken. 

[garbon]

I wish I had had her problems.

So because you had a rougher situation you can't feel any sympathy for her?

I can feel a little bit, but not much. Empathy, at least for me, requires some level of being able to put myself in their situation, and imagine how I might react similarly.

But I would not act similarly at all in her situation. Indeed, I've felt socially not accepted many times in a lot less "elite" places than the Ivy League.

Btw, that's why empathy can actually be difficult. It isn't as simple as would I react the same way in the same circumstances.

[garbon]

I don't disagree, though I think you could look at the disappearing as a separate act and maybe she 'thought' it the better option, rather than 'disappearing' for ever. Perhaps that was the choice she made?

Not sure I understand this.

What I alluded to at the start. Perhaps she thought this route was better than committing suicide and was struggling between the two.

[mongers]

I don't disagree, though I think you could look at the disappearing as a separate act and maybe she 'thought' it the better option, rather than 'disappearing' for ever. Perhaps that was the choice she made?

Not sure I understand this.

What I alluded to at the start. Perhaps she thought this route was better than committing suicide and was struggling between the two.

Yes I could imagine that struggle in a teenage, it's one thing to decide to flunk out of college, but then they're faced with dealing with the fallout.

[Berkut]

Berkut, I'm please for you that things worked out well for you, perhaps from a tricky start, that you made the most of your opportunities and are now doing well; because I'd fear if you'd flunked out and just ended up working in the 'caring professions'.   

edit: Way too much personal info there.

[Jacob]

One particular young woman making a bad decision? That is no evidence of a problem at all.

It's clearly a problem for her. Potentially it's one where the best way to address may not be to tell her "suck it up, don't be stupid".

It may not be indicative of a systemic problem, that's true.

[Jacob]

Deciding to "disappear" is far more problematic (though it may well be understandable, for the reasons you and Jacob state). Speaking as a parent, 'disappearing' must be one of the worst scares you can put them through without actual harm to anyone: her mother would naturally suspect the worst.

Absolutely. I hope she realizes the impact she had on those who love her and avoid doing shit like that in the future.

[garbon]

One particular young woman making a bad decision? That is no evidence of a problem at all.

It's clearly a problem for her. Potentially it's one where the best way to address may not be to tell her "suck it up, don't be stupid".

Yeah more of a situation where it is like 'okay so your definition of self has been shaken, has been shattered. now how do you move forward, how can I support you in taking those steps'