Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

But do you really think a Labour Party really earnestly and openly going for socialism-socialism, not some market economy compromise (in a parliamentary way) would ever be able to form a government anymore? If the answer is no, isn't the militant view Corbyn and his Corbynjugend the only way to reach the workers' paradise?

Personally I think 'socialism' is one of those sentimental, nostalgic shibboleths of the left that should be dumped. I don't know what it would look like in today's economy. To me you can't have socialism without Blakean hellscapes of nationalised heavy industry

It's symbolic. Even people who want an entirely different economic order are not proposing the mass nationalisations of our post-war attempt at socialism.

Also I'm not so sure about Corbyn and his fans. I think there is something to Jeremy Cliffe's suggestion that where Corbyn really departs from mainstream British politics is that he's very influenced by Latin America - that's where he was to an extent politicised - and he is into the politics of 'the movement' not the legislature. It's about mass rallies and demonstrations and creating an alternative society (that can apply as a model for the general society that you wish to create) rather than a Parliamentary road. That's why for people like him aspiring to govern the country is entirely secondary to winning control over the structures of the Labour party.

[celedhring]

Boris Johnson to get a cabinet post? He's meeting May at #10.

[Sheilbh]

So May's speech is properly One Nation/Christian Democrat in style. Of course Thatcher quoted St Francis (where there is discord may we bring harmony...) but still interesting.

Edit: Also striking, it sounds like the union is a real priority

It's a fascinating set of opening remarks, but if she follows through on any of it as actual policy I'll eat my hat.

It is a mark of something that she's occupied a major office in government for six years and none of us really know what to expect from her as PM.

Also interesting from Cliffe is that, looking at her list of political allies, in contrast to Cameron they're mostly state-educated, solidly middle class MPs for the outer Boroughs of London.

[Sheilbh]

Boris Johnson to get a cabinet post? He's meeting May at #10.

Been talk that he might get Culture. But it does seem early for a relatively junior post...

[Valmy]

Boris Johnson to get a cabinet post? He's meeting May at #10.

Foreign Secretary

[Sheilbh]

Boris Johnson to get a cabinet post? He's meeting May at #10.

Foreign Secretary

Quite possibly.

David Davis is in who would, probably, be Minister for Brexit.

[celedhring]

Boris Johnson to get a cabinet post? He's meeting May at #10.

Foreign Secretary

Jesus wept.

[Sheilbh]

Boris Johnson to get a cabinet post? He's meeting May at #10.

Foreign Secretary

Jesus wept.

Generous interpretation: he will be Minister for travelling round the world saying how great Britain is while she intends to run foreign policy from No. 10 (like Blair) and Brexit with the separate Brexit Minister. Meanwhile she can please the Leavers while getting rid of Michael Gove who was the cabinet colleague she disliked most.

Alternately: Jesus wept

[Valmy]

Holy shit he was appointed Foreign Secretary. I was just kidding. 

[Sheilbh]

Fallon stays at Defence and Rudd is now Home Secretary.

Liam Fox ( ) is in No. 10 now. God help us all

Edit: Would love to sit in on Boris's first meeting with the FCO civil service

[derspiess]

Holy shit he was appointed Foreign Secretary. I was just kidding. 

Awesome.  Good for him

[fromtia]

But do you really think a Labour Party really earnestly and openly going for socialism-socialism, not some market economy compromise (in a parliamentary way) would ever be able to form a government anymore? If the answer is no, isn't the militant view Corbyn and his Corbynjugend the only way to reach the workers' paradise?

Personally I think 'socialism' is one of those sentimental, nostalgic shibboleths of the left that should be dumped. I don't know what it would look like in today's economy. To me you can't have socialism without Blakean hellscapes of nationalised heavy industry

It's symbolic. Even people who want an entirely different economic order are not proposing the mass nationalisations of our post-war attempt at socialism.

Also I'm not so sure about Corbyn and his fans.

I don't think the PLP has any interest in socialism of any kind. I think they want to win elections and as long as it's not actually the Tories in office, it matters not if the policies themselves are broadly Tory.

I also don't think its realistic, reasonable or even particularly desirable to talk about marching toward socialism, or achieving socialism and so forth and I am a Labour voter (lapsed). Similarly the rather tedious orthodoxy of the Tories, that everything can be made better if we sell it to our rich chums so they can make a profit from it and that every institution of any kind can be improved by making it a corporation in structure (shudders) is utter bunk. A failed orthodoxy.

We unquestionably accept the socialization of national defense, or the fire service. Socializing the restaurant industry would be awful. Let's just be pragmatic. The pursuit of some ideological perfect solution is a real mistake I think.

The Corbyn thing is extraordinary, but it's so easy to just roll ones eyes, and say "oh bah, he's nuts what a ridiculous lefty" etc etc, but he has been thrown up by the Labour party membership (not actually vomited, more thrust forward ) for a reason. I think it's well established that the PLP is significantly to the right of the membership, in many cases for good reasons, and that selecting a leader who is more competent and compelling than Corbyn is only going to be a success if they are in some way recognizably left wing.

The whole voting for Iraq thing does weigh rather heavily on my mind during all this. It's not trivial.

[Sheilbh]

David Davis is Secretary of State for Brexit.

His comments on it before, here:
http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/07/david-davis-trade-deals-tax-cuts-and-taking-time-before-triggering-article-50-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html

[fromtia]

Also Boris Johnson as foreign secretary....Liam Fox (Liam Fox) as Hating the Fags International Trade....David Davis....

please see previous comment about actual policy/hat

[The Minsky Moment]

The Ministry of all the Unbalanced